Hi,

does one of you already built the illusion trapdoor from Tim Clothier?
(Advanced Illusion Projects, page 11 - 32)
I am on the search for a video of a live-performance.

Regards

Chris

Click here to view attached image.

...looks interesting and I remember reading the description but I from the word around the camprire from the various cliques and entourages around where I live and perform nobody is in a hurry to own one. Not sure why, I have an idea as to why, but other than my own assanine opinion of the concept of that illusion which I'm sure nobody wants to hear you may have a hard time finding someone who has all three owned it, performed it, and video taped it to a reaction of success or the other. Regardless of what the outcome I too would be curious as to the success a performer has had with this piece of prop.

Make that almost nobody (wants to hear your opinion, that is!)

Tim seems to have brought a "fresh-breath" in light of modern illusion design. He's worked with some big names in the business and I'm sure he has knowledge of pro's and con's when it comes to designing illusions for working performers. I do understand; however, his Trap Door illusion does not pack down for transport. This would seem to hinder my decision to want this illusion. Unless I had my own theater where I wouldn't have to worry about set-up and tear-down of such illusions, this would be a perfect piece. I would also like to hear peoples thoughts regarding this illusion.

-Bryan

Absolutely! Make that at least two people!

I wonder if the prop is available without all the extra bits and pieces? The poster, the ladder and the cloth do bump up the price of this, but I would not use this as described in the book.

Can you please explain what is the plot of this effect? Thanks!

Magicque, check this out:

http://www.timclothier.com/Trapdoor.html

Chris Dux

My very first thought was re-design. There is just somthing about putting an old stage trap on a very modern looking item that does'nt look right to me. I'd like to see the rest of the prop fit in with the charcter of the trap door better.

I totally agree majik, that was the very first thing I saw when I saw the ad.
The second problem I had was as magicque asked...what's the plot? I liked the idea though, it made the think of those portable holes you would see in cartoons and in Roger Rabbit. But, again, why wheel out this odd looking box with holes in it on wheels only to put this old trap door on it. I think if you're obviously trying to make a box with holes it it, you're obviously telling your audience I'm making a BIG deal to show you there is nothing under here..which in my opinion makes the audience look closer and burn the prop...if I'm making any sense here? Now, say someone does buy this thing I'm sure it is a lot of money to invest in something that's like bowling ball out of briefcase but with a person...say you put the door on the box and pull out a girl -now what? Please don't tell me after a cliche' dance routine she goes back in...which I'm sure is what will happen. Getting back to the trap door idea... what is it that people do with trap doors? They go into something like below the stage right? So when you put this trap door over this box without sides its not like the person is going into another dimension, but they're goign down...somewhere. Where the audience doesn't know but now you're clearly showing that they are going down into the area around the base. So again you're showing them where to look and burn the prop. Since I too have not seen it in performance this is just PART of my generalization of this illusion based off of descriptions and pictures. And I only give them here because they were a slice of what I thought could be giong on with this prop. Nothing personal aganist Tim, I've never met him before but I've heard he's a nice guy. So there's a bit of my curiosities about that illusion...for whatever that's worth...prolly not more than a cup of coffee at 7-11

Your reasoning makes sense to me. Still would like to see it performed though...

I think what Tim has is an awsome Illusion. It tells a story and gives a reason for the apparatus being used for the Production of a girl. I disagree with you sperris to think the magician would reverse the actions and put the girl back into the Trapdoor. That would be the most unwise direction to take this illusion and I frankly don't think that is what was intended by its creator. I think it is simply an appearence. To me it looks very well built and extemely deceptive . After the MAGIC is done , by the time any "HEAT" as you call it is ever on the table.. and the main (curtain) would be closing before anyone had a chance to back track. I think Tim deserves a lot of created for thinking of this theme and going with it. It is far harder to come up with a "what" to do in magic than a "how" to do it. I hope people can see the entertainment value in this effect. Focus needs to be on the effect and not the method in this case. As I personaly see it the only "heat" is on the trap door itself.. the rest is meaningless.

You could be right, I don't know, but you never know I've seen some crazy stuff done by performers which caused me not to rule out that someone may put her back in the trap. Sounds like the way you would perform it would be interesting to see, do you perform it or is this your educated generalization based off of what is in the promo for it? I'm kinda confused as to if your description is how you would perform it or how it is supposed to be performed? But in the ad pic there is a cloth, picture, and ladder. Does anyone know if these have anything to do with the prop? I personally don't know, so that also makes it difficult to understand the prop...at least for me.

Yes Sperris you're right, my opinon is based on how I would use it. One trick I've learned early on is you never consider taking your audience to the same place twice (unless you have a different outcome).. To me putting her back in would be equal to exposing it. Even though it's deceptive in its own right ..you never what to draw attention to the load. The "props" are what is under the trapdoor or under the stage. If we use our imagination that simple concept can be taken much further by adapting vertualy any popluar show on broadway.. the versatility or plots are endless. IMO

Drew and angela dv8 magic have and peform this illusion regularily on cruise shipsthey may have a video on there site give it a try
John

I have seen this illusion performed on the TV show "Shalakabula" by Yunke from Barcelona, Spain.

AWESOME.

Well...
if we apply the notion of "not taking the audience to the same place twice", we could say that many popular illusions are pretty much worthless....i.e.

Brett Daniels' Marilyn Monroe Illusion: The "Marilyn" appears and disappears at/on the same platform.

Copperfields Mid-Air Vanish (vertical asrah): Girl appears and eventually floats up from the same platform. (here the vertical levitation may take all the heat of the fact she stands in the same place twice).

Dave Womach's levitation (the link to the youtube video is somewhere else in this sub-section): The girl appears from the picture...is levitated...and vanishes back into the picture--all from the same point of reference.

In fact, I've seen many "artist dream-type" effects where the assistant appears and disappears from the same location. The question we must ask ourselves is not what we think...but rather, what is our audience thinking as they view these plots. Are they more intent on burning the props and the surrounding set? Or, are they enraptured by the performance piece being put on? Hopefully, the latter. But, as I can feel in Sperris' concern, too many hack illusionists do not have a plot that is developed enough for the audience to get themselves lost within.

Keith Jozsef

http://www.DREWandANGELA.com yes after further investigation drew and angela have video of the trapdoor illusion it will be posted on the site possibly today if not tomorrow, so check it out if ya like actually check out some of the other stuff great act guys
John

Keith and Dan, It's so true that acts at times don't consider plot and sadly put more emphasis on the equipment. Keith, your intitled to your opinion.. thank you for trampling over my comment... it's lost on you!
There are no absolutes and it's not black and white. There are IMO many variables such as props, plot or storyline. Sometimes a revist can work. I made no mention of anyone elses' performance. I still maintain one can strive to be more creative than returning to an obvious conclusion. THAT is what makes a great story, movie or novel. We are talking about TRAP DOOR on this thread.. and it would be, IMO an unwise suggestion to wrap the curtain around the table and push her back down the trap door. ,, To me it makes no sense and leaves clues.

I don't think I would buy it. but I would find an alt.way to create the same effect. Maybe with wooden saw horses to hold the trap door.[I must be thinking....I smell smoke.]

HowardT-- Get your tone in check. At no time did I "trample" on you. I made mention of the other routines to further illustrate a point ABOUT TRAPDOOR--of which, I'm fully aware this thread is about.

If you guys would just do your friggin' homework first, it would save a lot of confusion. READ THE AD DESCRIPTION!!! The suggested routines (there are 2 actually) both end with APPEARANCE OF THE GIRL....not "pushing her back down the trapdoor", as HowardT incorrectly stated.

The extended routine Tim suggests, FIRST has the girl vanish in the trapdoor, and THEN ultimately reappear. This is solely for the purpose of loading the girl in the prop when you don't have the luxury of off-stage space, that is out of view from the audience.

I can really relate to this, (as I'm sure many others can)...having been booked to perform countless illusion programs in hotel banquet rooms, convention centers, etc...that don't have curtains or off-stage space--leaving you and all of your equipment in plain sight.

Is it the optimal way to perform trapdoor?...of course not! In those venues where one could perform the routine as intended, you would. I think it's thoughtful of Tim, however, to script a back-up routine for those times when you're in a pinch. It helps you get more use out of a prop that--if you payed that much for--you'd certinaly want to get.

Keith Jozsef