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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Actually it is kind of a parallel if you think of it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
majik
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It maybe the best thing. I have not done buisness in a mall in the last 15 years. I hate malls and will not use them. But look at the bright side since the mall evicted you, you can now do real street magic.
ed rhodes
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I think his main complaint is that they asked him to move which he did and then they told him to leave. If they didn't want him performing, and that's certainly their right, they should have told him to stop in the first place.

As far as the performing free thing is concerned. I hardly think he was drawing any significant crowd the way he would if the mall had actually hired him and promoted a magic show. Furthermore, apparently the mall didn't feel they were getting any "free" service since they asked him to stop.
"He was born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world was mad." - Rafael Sabatini, Scaramouche
Dougini
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The Beautiful State Of Maine
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Quote:
On 2006-12-25 19:16, Dannydoyle wrote:...<- snip ->...After doing their free show, they want to show up at my shows, and be treated as if they are a peer...<- snip ->...I don't care if he does the free stuff, fine. BUT after playing a few songs for free at a party, does that guy show up and talk guitar riffs with someone doing a professional show? Don't think so...


Ha ha! Well Danny, I'm not a PRO (obviously...Ha!)...however I HAVE done magic for money quite a few years ago...(Semi-pro?)...

So what you're saying is, if I come to one of your shows and want to talk "shop" with you, you're going to snub me? I mean I've done more free shows than I can count...and that makes a PRO "off limits" to amateurs? Gee...I hope not...I'd be very disappointed.

Magic in the Mall? In my opinion...bad idea. For all the reasons stated above.

Doug
expand your consciousness
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Allow me to end my topic on a great note, and be more specific on the incident and answer certain statements, "feeding my ego","working for free".
THE MALL MANAGEMENT APOLOGIZED TO ME FOR KICKING ME OUT AND MADE A MISTAKE!
I was always in the right when I said these things, I don't think people read my post clear enough.
I don't think I was clear enough becuase I recieved a lot of backlash for doing this. First of all I don't perform for free 90% of the time, and I like to do impromptu performances, and this was my second performance in the that same mall, again security asked me to move if I wanted to continue, in essence they gave me permission. And agian, I truly doubt that my performance would really **** another magician off, seriously. If I was to see another magician perform I could appreciate it and not get mad at the individual, that wouldn't make sense. And if that person chose to work for money or free wouldn't that be their decision? Really. And as for stroking me ego, well I think the person who wrote that is the only one who is stroking my ego, not everyone else reading this. This topic went into a different direction I just wish people would have read what I wrote more clearly. As for working for free, I doubt I will ever perform in a mall again in general, and this incident and response has made me consider giving my time to charitable causes, will I again be bad guy for doing that? I hope not.
But I do appreciate your criticisms, criticism is good it helps spot weak points in your game.
I hope I was clear enough this time. And to all magicians around the world, never stop doing what you love, never accept criticism but deal with it and become the best and what you do.
Happy New Year to one and all.
MagicSanta
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Hi. You should learn to accept criticism, listening to it could change your direction to a better one. As for the mall issue that is wonderful they apologized to you, next time you perform unscheduled (impromptu? Not the correct term) they have every right to move you off the property. You see, that guard was trying to be helpful, guards do not run the show and his second appearance was his following instructions. I don't know what type of magic you do but you may want to see if the mall wants to hire you. I can tell you this, if I showed up at a mall in my Santa outfit and wasn't their Santa I'd be asked to leave and do so gracefully, then again I wouldn't go in the first place.
Keith Mitchell
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Prince came to my University and gave a free concert! Elton John goes to small clubs to sing new songs to see how people react to them. Learning is a lifetime experience. Once saw a kid ask Mick Jagger how he feels about other people singing his songs, and his reaction was that he was glad. more publicity for him. What do Rock Stars do with their time? Who knows! In my lifetime, I have seen rock stars perform free, and don't mind. Money is not everything!

I hear the top magicians perform the same stuff for years, so I wonder if we small time magicians just might be learning more than what they know? If they stay with the same stuff how do they learn the new stuff. One thing they do is have workshops with students. If they spot a student with real talent, they use them for their knowledge. Same as college professors. They are the ones that can't go to malls, because that would probably generate a huge mob that they don't want. Take a closer look at some of your Magic DVD's they film their stuff while performing on the streets FREEE, but charge us to buy the DVD's.

Going to the mall can be a learning experience. I could careless about the Mall's rules, even if it is private property. I like to see people smile. If I have problem running into a Mall security, then I will use some common sense and move on (no big deal). Also, I need to know what works and does not work, going to the mall is just one of many places where there are people. I been thrown out of a movie theatre for throwing water at a unseen police officer. This was at a Rocky Horror Picture show, way back in the late 70's. No big deal. Live your life as fun as possible. If you are learning something, then good for you. How you learn is not important, what you learn is important. If you are making money goody for you.

I have never drawn a crowd of people, maye one day. It must have been fun.
Ethan the emazing
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One time my friend was performing a card trick in a mall and while performing he knelt down, and couple min. later an officer came up to him and told him he had to stand up. He said he could keep performing but had to stand up, or leave.

Whats up with that?

Ethan the Emazing
Michael Taggert
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Ethan that relates back to street gamblers and the previous posts about homelnad security. don't ask for an explanation just accept what the rent-a-cop says and do your best to comply.

I have stayed out of this one on purpose but here goes. Sorry guys Walt is correct. Get PERMISSION from the Mall Before you pop up and do the show. the same goes for any street performers anywhere. you may find that if you are a working street pro, that your area will magically be protected and your pitch safe from intruders. but I digress, there has been miles of threads written on free vs paid performances. as a working pro I do not have a problem with a young performer wotking for free or little pay. the VFW show mentioned by monkeywrenh is a prime example of when to do a Free show. I would have done the same thing.
The bottom line is that many people think the Mall is a public place and the mall would like you to think so Untill they get a complaint. then they are a private property with their own private security force. Again get their permission to perform. find out what their rules are and follow them. It is best to get them in writting and keep a copy on hand so that when Barney Fife tells you you have to leave and you ask him what his justification is, you can pull out your agreement to say where is it written that I can't kneel while performing? Be Smart and like any good magician one step ahead of the crowd.
for my money however I would prefer a crowded park on a sunny afternoon.
Believe you then that I do strange things
dxsare
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I think a lot of people are missing the point. Another thing, there are a lot more hobbist than pros working, and even on this Café, there are a lot more hobbist than pros. This isn't about the "mall" post. It's about all the flame. A professional getting upset because some hobbist is performing magic for people?? Crazy. What's wrong with someone getting a little practice in?? Would everybody be so upset if he were on the street and showed a small group some tricks out of the blue?? MAYBE if there was a busker right around the corner.. but the truth is there isn't a magician on every corner.... MOST people have NEVER seen a live magician. I see a lot of people's egos get out of control on this forum.. actually on almost any forum. We all really need chill out with the flame. Critism is fine and very helpful. Being rude and disrespectful in a somewhat athoritive way is not. I give all the respect in the world to the pros.. but after all... the more people exposed to magic, the more it will help you, no?? I'm not starting a fight with anyone. I think we all need to think a little more about how we post, and how we treat other people in general. I just had to get that out.

Stevie D
-Stevie D
JoeJoe
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Well said Stevie ... I'm glad somebody here gets it.

Next we will be hearing comedians complain that some guy is trying to be funny at the waffle house. A little perspective please.

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
Phil Thomas
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I agree with Stevie and JoeJoe. I've been off this forum for quite some time due to so called "professionals" bashing the amateur. That's not a very "professional" way to act, people. In small towns where I live, there are NO professional magicians in my area at all...well there is one, but he has since retired from the craft due to arthritic hands and can no longer perform. Anyways, what's the big deal if the guy performs for free? I do it all the time. Am I taking money out of your pockets and food off of your tables by doing this? I think not. Please remember the slogan of the Café. "Magicians Helping Magicians". Criticism is fine and most needed, but when it turns into belittling others and looking down your nose at them, then that's when I have a problem and that's another reason why I have been silent for so long around here.

WHEW! I'm done venting now. I've thrown in my 2 cents. I'm off to perform in a port-a-potty. Smile
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."

Albert Einstein
Laszlo Csizmadi
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Ok guys here are my idea for that who wants to perform in the mall but that is needs a little extra work. Go down to the mall and find the person who gives permission selling staff on table. (Here where I live there are some tables in the mall where people selling books, calendars etc). Now ask him or her that is there any chance they will give you permission. If they say yes then go down to your local magic shop and talk to the owner and tell him about your plan. Explain to him that you love doing magic but you can perform only if you buy one spot and sell magic staff. The owner will pay the table fee for the mall. You took magic staff to the mall and sell them while you performing. The owner might pay you either a certain percentage for your work. Or you can open your own small business and do the whole thing for yourself.

Best

Las
Hank H
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Quote:
I've never been kicked out of anything as far as I can remember, but this was exhilerating, I enjoyed it.


If you thought that was fun I suggest you take up Blackjack and Card Counting. I've been kicked out dozens of times. Sometimes more than once on the same trip.
Yellowjacket
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Ok…here I go…

In defense of Danny Doyle and Walt

I am a professional that makes my living performing.

I have many amateur friends that help me in becoming better.

There are many amateurs that respect the art and contribute greatly.

However, most of my problems have been the result of the other amateurs. Those that as Danny Doyle stated, have learned a few tricks and now think they are my peer. Sorry, it is not a snub thing but simply I do not have time to hear how some guy who has just learned how to do a French drop tell me how to improve my show. I have spent years seriously studying my art. I have consulted with other experts in the field, some of them amateurs. How does some guy who walks around doing a couple of card tricks suddenly become my peer? He doesn’t.

I had a show about a year ago, where during the intermission, an amateur was doing card tricks in the lobby and explaining how the tricks in my show worked. He seemed surprised when one of my staff asked him in so many words to shut-up. After the show he tried to come back stage and was offended that I did not treat him as a fellow professional magician.

There is a place and time to perform magic or any other art form. I would not just show up to the mall and beginning jamming on my guitar. There are some social rules.

Free shows or doing magic for free? Frankly it has no impact on me. If some business is happy to get someone to perform magic for free for them so they do not have to pay, they don’t want a professional in the first place. If you do not understand that comment then you do not understand business.

YellowJacket
johnnymystic
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I was outside a Circle-K one night way back when in Tucson Az. I had gathered a small crowd and was performing some magic, when all of a sudden the place was surrouned by cops, half the crowd took off running...I was one of 'em, because I had no idea what was going on and I may've had warrants. One just never knows sometimes- after all I was a grifter from out of state...kinda like MARK LEWIS, but not as honest or nice.

The next day I went back to the Circle-K to buy some smokes and the clerk behind the counter told me the cops came because they thought there was a gang fight going on, this was due to the crowd I gathered, I love magic!

A week or so later I went back to the same store for a burrito and a soda pop, I had the munchies ya know and what do you think happens? As soon as I walk out of the store the place is surrounded by cops,there was even a police helicopter on the scene!!!

I calmly walked inbetween the cop cars as they pulled up to the convience store, I acted like nothing was going on (remember I had no idea if I had warrants or not) the sound was incredible, there was a chopper in the air, sirens going off everywhere due to the amount of police cars pulling up and me...just wading thru it all.

I ran across I think a four lane road on the street called 'Golf Links' in Tuscon Az. Cops were everywhere, they kept yelling at me, but I acted as though I had no idea they were.

And then I was tackeled, taken down man!!! I lost my drink, my burrito and my high. Come to find out just minutes before I went into the store it was robbed and the cops thought the robber was me!

What an experience!

johnny
I drink cheap tequila and vomit
<BR>I cannot eat hot wings...acid reflux
<BR>I never inhale Smile
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JoeJoe
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Hehe ... glad to know I'm not the only one here that has performed in front of a Circle-K!

-JoeJoe
Watch the Pilot Episode of my new TV Show:As Seen on TV: The JoeJoe Magic Show
SoCalPro
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Johnny....
Find another convenience store man!!!!! Smile
expand your consciousness
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Thank you for all of your responses, I think people started to understand the point of my topic, now I started doing some magic at the college that I'm in now, and yes with permission, but nothing crazy has happened yet.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-01-25 22:17, Yellowjacket wrote:
Ok…here I go…

In defense of Danny Doyle and Walt

I am a professional that makes my living performing.

I have many amateur friends that help me in becoming better.

There are many amateurs that respect the art and contribute greatly.

However, most of my problems have been the result of the other amateurs. Those that as Danny Doyle stated, have learned a few tricks and now think they are my peer. Sorry, it is not a snub thing but simply I do not have time to hear how some guy who has just learned how to do a French drop tell me how to improve my show. I have spent years seriously studying my art. I have consulted with other experts in the field, some of them amateurs. How does some guy who walks around doing a couple of card tricks suddenly become my peer? He doesn’t.

I had a show about a year ago, where during the intermission, an amateur was doing card tricks in the lobby and explaining how the tricks in my show worked. He seemed surprised when one of my staff asked him in so many words to shut-up. After the show he tried to come back stage and was offended that I did not treat him as a fellow professional magician.

There is a place and time to perform magic or any other art form. I would not just show up to the mall and beginning jamming on my guitar. There are some social rules.

Free shows or doing magic for free? Frankly it has no impact on me. If some business is happy to get someone to perform magic for free for them so they do not have to pay, they don’t want a professional in the first place. If you do not understand that comment then you do not understand business.

YellowJacket



Pretty much the point I am making. Not snobbery, not superiority, but reality of situations as they exist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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