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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Considering the growing popularity of these two area's of Magic I don't seem to see it reflected in the current Magic Conventions lineup. Just more of the same every year.
Why nothing new?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Samuel Catoe Inner circle South Carolina 1268 Posts |
Because the planners don't want them there. No other reason. I tried to get the SCAM convention to get a mentalist several years ago and was met with the response of "No one wants to see them but you." I feel pretty sure that conversation has been passed around at other convention planning sessions as well. Add to that, the expense of many lecturing mentalsits is more than the expense of magicians, or so I have heard.
Author of Illusions of Influence, a treatise on Equivoque.
PM me for details and availability. |
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Shouldn't we keep it this way?
Don't fight for what we do to become part of the big main stream movement slim... ;)
xxx
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Samuel,
I was contacted by John Tudor on behalf of SCAM. My price was very reasonable especially since I was offering a late night lecture in addition to my stage work. But it may be as you say magicians work cheaper than guys like me. However it does create a redundancy of information and thought. But I guess it often does come down to price. If you can have two of the same for the price of the one different I can understand going with what is the same and safe. It has been working for years and years and years so why change? The last convention I went to twenty two years ago has been cloned and spit out again and again since that time. Or it may just look like that to me. -Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Spinnato Elite user 428 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-29 11:08, Jeff Richards wrote: And where would YOU be today if your own advise was taken? |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Mentalism and Bizarre have their own conventions where they don't waste time with silly variations of card tricks.
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mystic1 Veteran user 342 Posts |
Keep mentalism and bizarre magic(k) away from the "imaginations" of card, coin, and birthday party magicians, fer gawd's sakes. Get them interested and they'll even more so be performing psychic entertainment abysmally for the public, turning people off to the genre in general.
We don't need magicians mixing psychic entertainement with conventional "magic." We don't need poorly performed mentalism and bizarre magic(k) coloring public attitudes. |
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Jon Stetson Veteran user 329 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-29 11:58, Spinnato wrote: Jimmy, I love you. But, the the kid has a point. -JS |
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Carlos the Great Inner circle California 1234 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-29 11:58, Spinnato wrote: My background is in science, so please keep that in mind as I pontificate for a moment here... The scientific community, in particular publications and conventions, encourages everybody, especially those in emerging fields to participate (given a certain amount of scientific credibility). The ideas are myriad but revolve around the premise that cross-pollination of ideas leads to advancements. This is how the scientific community works and I see no reason why we can't apply the same ideas here. For example, perhaps, due to feelings similar to Jeff's, the next future Banachek is not exposed to the art. All of his ideas and work are lost until somebody else, say, 30 years down the road has the same thoughts. Who has lost? We all have. Performers have lost a great mind filled with ideas and audiences have lost new wonders and experiences. Now, the complete openness of our society (if one would even call it that) is not possible due to the logistics of what we do but, especially with other performers (whether they use cards or not), cross-pollination of ideas is good, not bad. I think neophobia (fear of the new) is extremely dangerous and, generally, leads to stagnation and repetitiveness. I think neophobia (fear of the new) is extremely dangerous and, generally, leads to stagnation and repetitiveness. What is everybody so afraid of? -Carlos
Cognite tute
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Powers of the Mime Regular user 126 Posts |
So, you think mixing it all up is good and will make us more creative. Like wooden shoes and tap dancing.
It could work! I remember when that Simpson girl took my art of mime and applied it to music. It made for an enjoyable SNL show. Especially when she country danced to end it. All I can say is, you got peanutbutter on my chocolate...
A mime is a terrible thing to waste.
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John Tudor Loyal user Columbia, SC 209 Posts |
I would say that in the booking of any act (mentalist or otherwise) for a convention, the issue is not just price.
It is price relative to name recognition of the act in question. A very well known and well liked performer will usually command a higher fee, a lesser known act will not. What is considered a reasonable fee in the corporate entertainment world, for instance, is just not comparable to a magic convention situation if the act is not so well known to the magicians who attend. (especially with a small convention like SCAM) (http://www.scamcon.org) Also, Sam, I don't know who told you that no-one else but you would be interested - in our case we have had mentalist/bizarrists before. (Burger, Nu, Pecor, Dunn, etc.) But, when we have polled the attendees of our little convention as to what they want, it's true that very seldom were any mentalist acts suggested. An opportunity to book Max Maven was voted down, for instance, as the interest was greater to have someone else. John Tudor
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
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Bill Fienning Special user 635 Posts |
"Ordinary" magicians do not understand the underlying concepts of mentalism and the closely related field of bizarre magic. You are not likely to learn much about those topics at a conventional magic convention, even if they had lectures on those topics.
For mentalism information, there are conventions like MINDdvention in Las Vegas. The Meeting of the Minds is the (closed) convention of the Psychic Entertainers Association. The Gathering in Connecticut is a bizarrist convention held in November. Use Google on these names to find more information.
Bill Fienning
"It's More than Tricks" |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
I thought Mimes weren't supposed to talk?
:0) All these people (Blaine; C.A., etc.) and influences (Ellusionist, Penguin, etc.) have already drawn (and will continue to whether we like it or not) the people's attention. Thank God mentalism is finally getting interesting. And at the same time, I will say that I despise the above, for what they have done; and also thank them for it. They did raise the bar (or perhaps for many even lowered it), did they not? Less than 10% of my material consists of things made public. I use my own creations, and I have seperated my Self from other, lower standards. This is not to say that all readily available materials to the magic community are of low standards or quality; absolutely not. We are blessed and fortunate to have some great and wonderful minds among, before and behind us. And further still, that they are willing to share their brilliant insights and working material; their lives, their selves. They take a big risk doing this; and some of you do not even realize it as you actively use "their" material in YOUR performances. I just feel that when we create our own material; it lifts us up . . . makes us immune to the interrogations of another. To search for a method is worthy; but mine? Futile. In this sense; there is no published explanation for what we are doing. No identifying marks and descriptions to surf through dozens upon dozens of online magic shops. They cannot walk into a magic store and buy what I do. Others cannot get online, even "infiltrate" the Café itself to find out EXACTLY what I am doing/performing/demonstrating and HOW I am doing it. There is a little, sure. For the most part though, I keep it to myself. I am thankful and appreciative that the materials, essays and lectures, routines, performance psychology(s), stage craft, sleights, gimmicks, etc. have all been released. It's true. We would not be here now were it not for the giants whose shoulders we stand on. On the other hand; flooding the market with cheap mentalism fad's which often lead to exposure and horrible performers makes me die inside. If we wish to become exempt; we must simply choose (read: CREATE) material that no one else does, and that nobody has access to. On the foot: a person will always be able to find the means or a method to anything we may ever, ever perform. It is human nature combined with the now radical availability of all types of information. If someone see's you do it; and they try to duplicate it, at least make it hard for them! Nobody here should be getting busted by some kid saying; "My brother bought that trick online (in a casino, fill in the blank.)" Break away from the normal and the popular. Blaze your own path. Regards, Jerome.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
There are two Magic conventions within driving distance from my home each year. I would like to see something in this area, since I really don't have the time to fly across country and take an entire weekend off. I did catch Docc Hilford's lecture in Texas this year, but only because our paths happened to cross (He's from Florida now too)
There seems to be a large group of Bizarrists down here. Any of you want to chime in?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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doormouse Regular user 152 Posts |
Samuel,
Sounds like you were responded to rather rudely. Talk to Harry Allen, he seems to be responsive to suggestions for the Florida State Convention. |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Ok John,
I will state this publicly - if that is the case do not contact me again and waste my time. -Jim Creator of G.O.D.
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Spellbinder Inner circle The Holy City of East Orange, NJ 6438 Posts |
I don't understand what all the complaining is about. The mentalists and bizartists have always been a part of every magic convention. The mentalists all head down to the bar at the designated time (only they know what it is and communicate to one another paranormally) and lecture to one another until the bar tender throws them out for peeking into the minds of the bar maids. The bizartists, meanwhile, have their own meetings in the local cemetary at midnight and dig up some interesting stuff to talk about. Those that aren't trapped in an alternate dimension usually get back to the hotel in time for breakfast. What? None of you got the memo?
Professor Spellbinder
Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry http://www.magicnook.com Publisher of The Wizards' Journals |
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John Tudor Loyal user Columbia, SC 209 Posts |
Jim,
As you wish. Please accept my deepest apologies if I have offended you. John
"Ars longa, vita brevis." (Life is short, the art so long to learn) -Hippocrates
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
John said:
Quote:
But, when we have polled the attendees of our little convention as to what they want, it's true that very seldom were any mentalist acts suggested. An opportunity to book Max Maven was voted down, for instance, as the interest was greater to have someone else. John, If you are polling the people that went to the convention, then you are talking to the wrong people. You need to talk to the people who would have attended. See what I'm saying? Dave
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Powers of the Mime Regular user 126 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-12-29 19:00, TT2 wrote: E tu, TT2? Mimes can type, we are also very gifted at speaking with our hands. :clown:
A mime is a terrible thing to waste.
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