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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Very evasive, Tony, but hardly honest answers.
I suspect that your clients often make their state of mind, their beliefs and their notions of what you are doing clear to you. Care to share honestly in that regard? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I guess you are calling Tony dishonest then....? I will have no such talk on this thread. If you must deviate you'd better be nice!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I thought Tny was very honest and driect. I don't think answers about "beliefs" have cut and dry answers much of the time.
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity
It is hard to get into details here when Café policy restricts it. Everything I stated is honest and I find it uncharacteristic of you to make such a statement. And your use of the term "clients" is not appropriate in most cases. If you had read the previous posts on this topic, you would understand why, and would understand my first statement in this post. Tony |
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts |
Tony has always been honest about this. I have had several PM conversations with him about it. I suggest you speak to him in PM if you want to understand.
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I found Tony's answer to be evasive and not an honest attempt at answering my sincere questions.
For example, when I asked if what he did (and in the context of this discussion, that obviously implies his work as a Mentalist/Mystic) was based at any level upon deception, he responded with a remark about taking his 5-year-old nephew's nose off. Hardly a sincere response to a sincerely asked question. If Tony is making claims at being a mystic on a public forum, I suggest that questions about what he claims and how his clients perceive him are fair game. He surely has clients who have expressed a reaction to him or to what he has presented to them. In the course of his readings I'm certain that they offer some information regarding their beliefs. To state that he doesn't know everything they are thinking avoids my questions and seems to me, disengenuous. My questions were respectful and genuine, and I had hoped for Tony's responses to be the same. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity, it is apparent that you have a misconception of what a mystic is. And I did make an explicit statement saying I am NOT a mentalist. Let's put it this way, most everything I do, and how I live my life is spiritually centered. That is a topic that is frowned upon here, so I will not go into it.
You"re reading into my statements what you want to read, but that does not mean that is what they state, or the intention behind them. Tony |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I was asking the questions I asked to get a better understanding of what YOU consider to be a mystic, or to get a better understanding of what it is that you present and how you present yourself. There is a lack of clarity or useful information in your answers to my questions, and so I am forced to "read into them" what I can.
Do you accept payment for your services or presentations? That is what I meant by clients. I'm not out to expose, debunk or insult. I'm trying to get a clear understanding of what you do, how you perceive your presentations, and how your audience perceives you and what you do. If you find it uncomfortable to answer in the public forum, please PM me your response. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity
Misunderstanding and miscommunication are the cause of what appears to be conflict. Although I don't quite agree with everything said, and would add a deal more, this link will give you an idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism Because of the policy of the Café, and a rightful policy, I cannot go into detail on this topic. As for the other questions, I have not problems answering them, but you might change them or add more after you look at the link, so I'll hold off just now. (Plus I have a call coming in. ) |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Tony: I checked out the link and have read through much of the site.
I have read similar texts during my own search over the past several decades, and I have my own thoughts and understandings of Mysticism. With respect to what you believe regarding Mysticism, my questions still stand, and seem to me all the more cogent. In light of your original replies, I re-phrase: In your experience, are there ever times during your presentations as a Mystic when your clients/audiences think you are doing somethign different than you actually are? In your experience, and given what your clients/audiences have told you, do they ever believe that you have a higher understanding or insight into their lives and the world than they do? Do you believe that what you are presenting as a Mystic is being offered as entertainment? If so, given your experience and what you clients have told you, do your clients/audiences always hold the same belief, or have they ever expressed a belief that what you have presented is something different? Is what you're doing when you perform as a Mystic or Reader based at any level upon deception? Do you ever perform theatrical tricks or effects for money? Many thanks for your thoughts, here. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Entity, I was curious to your disclaimers for your act? Care to share since we all are? This might give us a better view of your stance on the subject.
P.S. please let us not degenerate this thread - I like it and it has good stuff in it. How is this by the way MINDMARE: The mental and bizarre magic gathering. By the way, how much would people pay for a 2 day solid event with lectures, demos, breakfast, and lunch included - accomadations up to you?
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity
Please define for me the term mystic. We are still having communication issues. If we don't understand the terms we are using (and thus far, we do not) then we can not continue as both of us will get frustrated. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I present myself as a Psychological Illusionist, and so make no pretense at being psychic or having supernatural powers.
At the beginning of my performances, I tell the audience that my background is as a Magician and Magic Consultant, but that I've always been much more interested in the psychology behind the illusions than in the smoke and mirrors. I tell them that I'm not psychic, although what I will do will make it appear that I am. I tell them that what I do is based upon the psychology behind illusion, and that I will manipulate their perceptions of what they will see, feel, and experience. I will use my unique understanding of human nature to control their thoughts. That's my disclaimer. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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ChuckHickok Loyal user 245 Posts |
Observations From a Lecturer:
I have lectured at regular magic conventions ... and at the MindVention and the PEA's Meeting of the Minds. Last year, I was also a featured lecturer at the National IBM Convention in Miami. Plus, I lectured at 50 other locations around the world in the past 3 years. Except for Mindvention and the MOTM, there are three kind of people who show up at my lecture: 1) magicians with a strong interest in performing true, believable, entertaining mentalism. 2) magicians looking for a new "trick" to add to their magic shows. 3) magicians with no interest at all in mentalism ... but just want to be with other magicians and their friends. My goal was to give everyone who attend what they came hoping for. For the "hard core" mentalists, I talked about my beliefs about what it takes to present an entertaining mentalsim act. I covered lots of small but important points that went over the heads of the most of the people at the lecture but were "pure gold" to the serious menatlists. For the magicians just wanting "tricks", I explained five routines from my current act ... with all the latest refinements. I had handouts and "visuals" to help them understand the key points. Of course, the "hard core" folks benefited from this too. For the rest, I tried to make my lecture quick, informative and fun. I never had a disrespectul group ... and I've always had fun. (I'm a teacher at heart ... and most everyone learns something at the lecture.) The key to success: Just like performing, know why your audiences shows up ... and work hard to meet their expectations. I talked to lots of other lecturers before doing my first lecture. I have only one lecture - It explains the thinking behind my act. And since I only have one act, I running out of places to present my lecture. ( I may have something new for a future Mindvention. ) At this point, I do not "seek out" lectures. If a group calls me and asks me to speak at their convention or to their magic club, I will look for three or four close by locations to also lecture at. If I can make that happen, off I go. Chuck Hickok |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Tony: I'm asking you to define what it is that you do and how you present yourself.
You've made a statement that you are a Mystic. What do YOU mean by that, and how does that manifest itself in your demonstrations/Readings/presentations? How does YOUR interpretation of youself as a Mystic apply to the questions I've asked? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Thanks Entity!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Entity:
As a minister, as a theologian, as a pastor, as a spiritual counselor, as a person with a spiritually centered life and sense of being, as a person who looks for, and finds grace in the world and within all things, I strive to be one with God as he is part of me. And as such, I am in at least part divine. And I use all of my God given and developed gifts in every aspect of my life, all aspects become one. I am a spiritual centered person, a mystic. Some call me priest, some reverend, some brother, some mystic, so substitute the word priest for mystic in your questions and see if they really make sense, or if my answers previously given make sense. Your questions are aimed for the mentalist, which I have stated several time, I am not. When I meet someone, I gain impressions of that person, intuition, or a quiet reading, or God given insight, it could be none, one, or all of these things that happen. When I shake hands or touch, I am passing healing thoughts, and positive energy. I’m far from perfect, but try to follow a middle path understanding that I walk in two worlds, a material physical world and a spiritual, metaphysical world. And where we walk, the two worlds touch. I do perform as an entertainer and the same practices I use throughout all other aspects of my life are used. When I shake hands or touch, I am passing healing thoughts, when I meet someone, I gain impressions of that person, but instead of keeping that information to myself, I feed it back. I will supplement my intuition with systems for reading as people tend to enjoy this. Oh, yes, I do like to collect mentalism and magic props and methods. I do occasionally perform as one of them when asked. And will occasionally use a magic prop, but even Martha Stewart occasionally orders a pizza. In those instances, I am clearly acting as an entertainer, but even so, the majority of what I use to entertain is the abilities that God has given me. My life is a spiritual journey, all aspects use the gifts I've been given, one term that is used to describe my role is that of mystic. (I was very careful to leave out anything concerning a particular faith or belief system so that this might not be deleted) Tony |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
From WIKIPEDIA:
A Mystic is a person who practices mysticism. Mysticism from the Greek ìõóôéêüò (mystikos) "an initiate" (of the Eleusinian Mysteries, ìõóôÞñéá (mysteria) meaning "initiation"[1]) is the pursuit of achieving communion or identity with, or conscious awareness of, ultimate reality, the divine, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight; and the belief that such experience is an important source of knowledge, understanding, and wisdom. Traditions may include a belief in the literal existence of realities beyond empirical perception, or a belief that a true human perception of the world transcends logical reasoning or intellectual comprehension. A person delving in these areas may be called a Mystic. ...The term "mysticism" is often used to refer to beliefs which go beyond the purely esoteric practices of mainstream religions, while still being related to or based in a mainstream religious doctrine. For example, Kabbalah is a significant mystical movement within Judaism, and Sufism is a significant mystical movement within Islam. Gnosticism refers to both a mystical movement within Christianity and various mystical sects which arose out of Christianity. Some have argued that Christianity itself was a mystical sect that arose out of Judaism. While Eastern religion tends to find the concept of mysticism redundant, non-traditional knowledge and ritual are considered as Esotericism, for example Buddhism's Vajrayana. Vedanta is considered the mystical branch of Hinduism.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Tony: Thank you for yur helpful answer. My questions to a priest would be somewhat the same, although with a priest or Minister it would seem obvious that they are not presenting entertainment as such, or (unless they are being deceptive) use hidden props and tools.
You state that you sometimes perform as an entertainer, but the implication in your post is that you bring your Mysticism into the performance. Do you believe, or has your audience expressed to you, whether or not they are able to differentiate between your Mysticism and you as an entertainer who uses theatrical props and effects? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Interesting question! It has never really come up, it is just part of who I am, and who I am becoming. I used to hold back on who I was, and play a character while performing, I don't do that anymore. Life is theater, if you are going to play a role, play one you know and like. (If you don't like yourself, change.) So, I play myself now in all aspects of my life, sometimes a bit subdued, sometimes a bit over the top, but always me. I flow better, and people recognize the honesty in it as well.
Tony |
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