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Carlos Hampton
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I will do the production of the first 3 loads leaving each cup behind its load, and loading the 4th one in the middle cup, to keep the simetry of the overall picture.

I think that producing the 4th from a stacked cup, diminishes the imposibility of the production. You know what I mean, an orange coming out of a cup looks better than an orange coming out of 3 cups.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know.
mslj
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Hello Jim

I'd also go for the single cup rather than the stacked cups and also produce the fourth object from the middle cup.

How you get that fourth there depends alot on your final loading sequence. I usually load the fourth follwing the revelation of the first fruit/ball under the middle cup. By doing this the surprise of the first revelation takes the heat off the final fourth load.
Pokie-Poke
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I like the stacking idea better, leaving the other cups out now leaves the audience looking for load #5, #6....etc.
By stacking the cups like you are finished, the 4th load is a shock finish.
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The Adventure cont...
ASW
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JamesinLA;
The cups are (I believe) the Cellini cups sold by Zauberladen in Switzerland. Do a search on Google for 'Cellini King of Street'.
Cheers
Andrew
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mslj
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Danny Hustle
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Sonny was in fact using the Cellini cups. Very nice cups.

Thanks to all who pointed out where I could get the Ken Brooke's egg bag info. It is a great little book.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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JamesinLA
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Thank you Andrew, mslj, and Danny. (AND GEORGE! sorry)
I really like the Cellini cups that Sonny Holiday was using. I think they look and sound great. They look well balanced too, judging by how Mr. Holliday handled them. But I went and bought a set of Biro's Gali Gali cups. They are beautiful but they are also HUGE. My 1 inch knit balls look out of proportion on top of them. Can anyone recommend what type(s) of balls to use with these Biro cups and where to get them?
The other thing that I now realize is where am I going to get my larger final loads from now? They will have to be so much bigger. Two choices I can think of because normal pockets are now out of the question: a pouch or a topit. I have no experience with either.

I'm not sure what size venue I'm going to start with, but probably more of a doorway show. If I do a doorway show, perhaps I would be better with my small aluminum cups, which are just big enough to hold a raquetball as the final loads? Or maybe I should get an inbetween size set like the Johnson or the Cellini? All thoughts are welcome. (By the way, how much do the Cellini cost (can't figure out the Euro conversion) and are there any look alikes to the Cellinis, that are the same size, but cost less?
Thanks!
Jim

Carlos, mslj, and Pokie-Poke:
Very interesting discussion and ideas. One thing that bothered me about stacking the cups was that I liked having each cup right behind each final load after it was revealed, usually lying mouth open to the final load after having been tipped over by my wand. Stacking the cups takes away the chance of seeing the cups behind each final load. I think that's a nice image that helps the effect somehow. It reinforces that these big things came from under this that and the other cup, and, perhaps seeing the cups behind the loads reinforces how big the final load is compared to the cups. It barely fits in there! However, ultimately, I think I agree with Pokie-Poke's point that stacking the cups doesn't give the audience any false expectations that would prove unclear and anticlimatic, and, as I said previously, it is how I do my routine to date.
Two ideas though: 1) Perhaps make the fourth final load different and more special than the other first three final loads and thus deserving of a stack of three cups to produce? In my case, I do three rubber balls that completely fill my cups and then usually a fruit.
2) Perhaps a way to not stack the cups and avoid Pokie-Poke's insightful problem: tip the cups to reveal the final loads. Leave two of the cups tipped over, mouth to audience, showing them empty, and only put one cup down upright. And that's the one that has the fourth final load. With the other two cups tipped over and showing empty, we avoid the expectation of any more loads.
What do you guys think?
Jim
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Harry Murphy
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Hey James, try http://www.oanda.com/converter/classic?user=Babel

for money conversions.
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MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations One & All,

You all slay me! This one thread is worth its weight in gold! The thoughts, opinions and outlines on the cups and balls found here is as good a primer as I've run across, and I've been doing some homework on the subject. Many, many thanks to all who have shared their thoughts.

On the Cellini cups, Hocus Pocus, http://www.hocus-pocus.com, claims to be an official US distributor of the cups, and lists them for $295, depending on the conversion rate and shipping, it could save you a couple of bucks.

Joe in KC
Danny Hustle
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James,

The Biro cups are huge but donít be discouraged! Gazzo uses small soccer balls that he picked up at a craft store. They are just bigger than an inch. You can find them at any craft store. They usually have small baseballs and basketballs as well. They are about five bucks for a set of four. You will know them as soon as you see them.

These cups work best with a final load the size of a full size orange. If you are only doing 4 final loads and not a melon go to any restaurant supply store and pick up a waiters/bartenders apron. They are black and will hold a ton of stuff and cost about 10 bucks. Once you get the apron you will see that it has three front pockets. You can easily pull the seams from the pockets and you should do this so that it is one open pouch. Then you should sew one dart dead center on the top lip of the apron to attach the lip to the back fabric. This will keep the pouch from falling too far open while you are wearing it loaded. Also, if you have big hands like I do fill the pouch full and see how much room your hand needs to go into the pouch. You may need to move the dart just right of center if you load with your left hand. That is what I did and it worked a treat!

If you want to get fancy this pouch is big enough to do three final loads and a grapefruit, small coconut, or softball. This is exactly how I did the routine before Gazzo gave me one of his old pouches (yes, he is a saint!).

Whatever you do James, do not give up those cups. These are cups that can play a doorway or a 200 plus crowd. Cups of this size are so versatile it is mind-boggling. Next to the new large Gazzo cups these are probably the best cups of this size out there and by far the best deal dollar wise in magic.

If you want to work the bigger load (Grapefruit, etc.) as a kicker look at the Gazzo tape and think about how you could rework it to use only three oranges and the kicker. If you need help shoot me a PM and Iíll be more than happy to give you any finer points that I can as that was how I did my routine for several months. If you do not wear a hat donít even worry about it and just stick with the 1-2-3-pause-pause-4 finish. You own a real set of honest to goodness workerís cups. They are a perfect size for the street, cabaret, or trade show. These are the size cups you should use when working for real people. Pete Biro is one of the greatest magicians living today and is a real worker. I donít think the man knows how to put out a product that is less than stellar. The stuff that he does put out has been tried and trued and used by many of magicís real workers.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Jeff Dial
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An addendum to Dan's notes on the apron.

If your apron has square corners at the bottom (it probably will), by turning the one big pocket you made inside out and sewing a curve into each of the bottom corners (trimming the excess material off when sewn), your loads and balls will be concentrated in the center of the apron and not get lost in the corners.

This is an idea from Cellini's lecture and notes.

Must agree with Joe in KC -- a great thread on the C&B.
"Think our brains must be too highly trained, Majikthise" HHGG
Danny Hustle
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Oops, I forgot that! Thanks Jeff. I agree as well, a great thread on one of the greatest tricks in magic!

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Carlos Hampton
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Jim,

I like option 2 the best, it will give a balance picture and it will look great avoiding the exposed problems.
Try it both ways and see the result, but don't forget the pause. Smile
Danny Hustle
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Jim,

how are you making out with those cups?

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
JamesinLA
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Carlos, thank you and I will definately give option number two a try and see how it plays and get back to everyone with the results.

Danny,
What can I say, man. Thanks for the great encouragement. I will certainly keep the gali gali cups, and will in time get used to them I'm sure. (I'm sending one cup back because it got a small dent in the shipping and Pete was great about it; he really stands behind his product!)
I was looking in "Michaels" yesterday for those little baseballs you mentioned. I really like that suggestion of yours of using little baseballs for the balls. Didn't find any at Michaels but will keep checking out other craft-type stores.
Danny, I wonder if those gali gali cups could hold a softball or did you mean the softball would be for a gazzo hat-type production? Baseballs are a little too small for final loads, doesn't fill the cups quite enough. But really like the idea of softballs if they would fit.
Jeff and Danny, also thanks for the great advice on the pouch. When Cellini does the cups and balls, do you know if he uses a pouch or the toppit he showed on his tape?

I finally got my Gazzo cups and balls tape and really liked it and liked getting a glimpse of Danny and Koz. And Cellini's there too!
I was thinking of getting the other Gazzo tape. The Gazzo uncensored. Does anyone know if he show his whole act on that one?
Best,
Jim
PS: started staking out my future performance area yesterday (Sunday).
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Danny Hustle
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Jim,

The softball was for the final hat load. On the street I think oranges are better than baseballs for the cup load. Iíve done both and found oranges to just play better. I really donít know why for sure but I have a couple of theories.

In Celliniís book he describes his cup and ball routine and it uses a pouch. In his lecture he uses the topit. The timing for this final load is very different from Gazzoís. Cellini loads when the trick is over and he is taking a bow.

Mike Rogers made beautiful leather covered baseballs for cup and ball work. I believe Denny Haney still sells them at Dennymagic.com . I do not know if he made them bigger than 1Ē I have a set that he made for me that are a bit bigger than an inch but they might not be what he normally sold. Gazzo uses little rubber soccer balls that he got at
Michaelís.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
mslj
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Little story about my weekend experience. I was booked at a party on Saturday night and wanted to use the cups. I always have a fresh set of oranges for practice but these had been bashed around abit.

So off I goes to my local supermarket. From past experience I know that I am lousy at judgeing the size of the orange and can guarentee that it'll either be too big or too small. So off I went with one of the gazzo cups. Spent about 10 minutes with my 6 year old son finding the perfect oranges. This process involves testing each orange to see if it'll fit into the cups and getting the right mixture of shapes.

Towards the end of this I felt a tap on the should and turned to see the security guy who asked me to 'could you please explain what you are doing with oranges?' To which my son replies 'he's going to do magic with them'.

Guess I won't be going back there for a while!
Whit Haydn
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Gazzo Uncensored contains a full 40 minute show at the Magic Castle, a complete Ren Faire show with the "underwater escape," and the full street show at Quincy Market, Boston that is shown in part on the Gazzo on the Cups and Balls tape, and snippets on the Cellini tape.
Ron Giesecke
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Dan,

Last night at the casino, I lit up a large group with the cups and balls. I used a tangerine, a lime, and a plum. Without exception, someone will grab them and inquire if they are real. They realize very quickly that they are.

But this ponts up the fact that phony loads are the first theory. If I were using Fab fruit (which look great, by the way), the inquiry would then never be punctuated and resolved, and my finale would forever be diminished in a grey area of "trick fruit" suspicion.

I have a feeling that baseballs could have the same effect, or at least a lesser impact, as they are man-made, and the fruit is an organic item that is, at least in the mind of the layman, inalterable.

The ending is just so suprising and impossible, and since the cups themselves are usually a curiosity of their own momentum, that it pays to end the thing with something completely understood by the audience, and leave the rest to conjecture.
Danny Hustle
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Ron,

Right on! That is my thought as well. The people ALWAYS want to touch and when they feel something is "real" to them it is more stunning.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! Iím so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
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