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Carlos Hampton
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I do remember seeing David Williamson in the past using cherrys instead of the regular cups.
BTW the gag where you make the ball disspaera in your mouth made sense and was funny, specially after he spited out the seed.

I guess you can go fruit all the way and use cherrys or grapes instead of the balls. There are a type of cherry which is between yellow and orange color and is big in size. I think that this can play great specially with the bigger fruits at the end.

All right who is going to publish the next book on ideas with the cups and balls? It can come out of here.

Next questions, I know that there have been several magicians through history and this days Johny Ace Palmer, using live stock as a final load. Also in some other post we got form Dann's wisdom that is not a good practice to take live stock with you to the streets, reference temperature and another issues. But for close up situations I think that there is no way you can top the impact this thing is going to produce in your audience.

I was wonder if any of you have experimented with this and can give any pointers as far as loaders, loading techniques, types of creatures etc...

Thanks to all. Anybody wants to donate a good set of cups to a good house???? I promise I'll take good care of them. Smile
MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations,

Danny and Payne, thanks for the Bosco cups advise. They just came in, and you were right on target, there is no comparison with the Phoenix cups, the Boscos win hands down! They look great, they sound great, and they have a nice feel, not as heavy as I imagined, but they feel very solid.

Now I'm waiting for a set of Galli Galli cups to arrive in the next day or so. After reading all of Danny's comments on Pete Biro's cups, and not being able to find a link on the web to see what they looked like, I contacted Pete directly. He sent me a photo showing his cups compared to a number of others, offered me a good deal on a set of his cups, and couldn't turn it down.

My magic budget is about half-shot for the year, and it's only January but as I've got a direction, a set to put together, and much scripting to do, for the next three months I need to spend magic time and not magic money.

I'm looking forward to comparing the two sets.

This thread has taken some interesting turns, all of it usefull. Thanks for all the help. Have fun playing in the streets.

Joe in KC
JamesinLA
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Danny,
Couldn't find the soccer balls at any craft store in my area. But I did find them on the web. They are Fooseballs! Here is the website: http://www.foosballstore.com. They also have just plain balls of different colors including white. They have cork balls, and plastic, and in sizes from 1", 1 1/4", and 1 3/8". Hope that is of help.
Jim
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Ronnie Ramin
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I would think that Foosball balls would be too hard and "noisy" in the Cups. You can find some great balls in the hardware store. they are decorative balls for Pull Chains on ceiling fans.
JamesinLA
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Thanks for the tip, Mars. I actually went to Home Depot tonight and found those pull chain balls for light fixtures. They actually have mini baseballs and basketballs. Bought the baseballs. They look great! Real leather and real stiching. They cost $3.50 each. They are a little big--closer to 1.5 inches rather than 1 3/8--but they look so good had to get 'em. However, I do think Gazzo uses those fooseballs, whether they are plastic ones or cork or rubber. Maybe performing outside on the street makes it impossible to hear any talking of the balls?
Jim

I'm about to build a street performing table (a cups and balls table!) and was wondering if anyone could recommend the length and width dimensions for the table top. I was thinking the table top should be about 30 inches by 18 inches. How does that sound? Anyone know what size Gazzo's table is? Thanks everyone.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
kasper777
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Jim, I recently builty my own table top. Not that hard. I went to Lowes and they had pre-cut 16x36 wood for about $6.00. They also had thinner and wider pieces, too. I then glued a terry cloth towel on top of the wood and trimmed it. Then I pulled a green sheet over top and glued and tacked it into the bottom and trimmed the extra off. It look nice. I'm thinking about using apolstory nail for a nicer look. I thought about adding a frame but I lack the tools to do that. The only I have left to do now is to get a stand. Anyone with ideas on building one. I know I can buy a tray stand or keyboard stand for about $30, but I would like to build one if cheaper.

Nolan
MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations,

I think Gazzo gives the dimensions for his table, and how he constructed it, in either his book or video, or both, but the dimensions escape me at the moment.

You may find 16 inches to be a bit narrow. I didn't measure twice before I cut once, and the table top I made ended up being 17 inches wide. It works OK for my practice table, but the next one I build will be wider, and I'm going to add the frame as well.

Contact a restaurant supply store for a tray jack/tray stand. I'm sure that's what Cellini recommended using because they were relatively inexpensive and hold up reasonably well. I got my last stand for about $17 -- it was slightly damaged. Actually, it had a chip gouged out of a corner, and I repaired it with the same wood stain I had used to make up some wands out of dowel rods.

The stands hold up reasonably well, particularly if you're doing mostly stationary work. I dragged my last stand around for about 20 weekends doing four or five shows a day, and I didn't treat it gently. A prop box is sitting on it in my magic room right now. I got the second stand because I wanted to modify it to hold the table top, ie, adding hooks and straps, and I didn't want to modify the stand that had made me and my partners money doing exactly what I had wanted it to do.

Have fun playing in the street!

Joe in KC
JamesinLA
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Quote:
On 2003-01-20 19:13, whithaydn wrote:
Gazzo Uncensored contains a full 40 minute show at the Magic Castle, a complete Ren Faire show with the "underwater escape," and the full street show at Quincy Market, Boston that is shown in part on the Gazzo on the Cups and Balls tape, and snippets on the Cellini tape.


Whit,
Thanks for the info. This sounds like an incredable tape because you get to see Gazzo's entire act, including seeing him drawing the crowd, keeping the crowd, etc. He truly is a master at working the crowd in every way and it sounds like this tape will show this. I'm not sure what you meant about about snippets on the Cellini tape, however. But I'm going to get this tape. Seeing him work the crowd was a whole nother bonus of the cups and balls routine, besides the routine itself.
Jim

Thanks, Nolan and Joe re: the street table. Joe, do you think the 30 inch dimension is long enough or would you go longer as Nolan recommends?
I was going to build the stand part myself, but if I can get one for less than 20 bucks it's worth it to just buy one. Thanks for the tip.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
Carlos Hampton
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Jim,

I just bough a stand last week. Mine was $34 and change but it was also damaged and I got it for $25. I sent you a PM with a link. Did you get it?

Regards,
BroDavid
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James,

Another bonus of the gazzo unleashed tape is that even though he is always Gazzo, you get to see him work several different kinds of audiences, and at the Magic Castle, I think he even wears a tie! But in spite of the different venues and style of dress, and choices of material - he is still Gazzo!

And as Whit said, you get to see Gazzo's famous "Underwater escape", which is a genuine treasure of a performance.

I just saw one of these tapes for sale on eBay for about 1/2 of what I paid. But I still got more than my money's worth. I think you will get a lot out of it!

BroDavid
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MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations James,

Glad I could be of assistance. Got the Galli Galli cups Friday, but I only had about an hour to play with them this weekend. Looking forward to some practice time this week.

On the table. Like everything else in this business, it's trial-and-error. Go with the long table top, but don't finish it, or you'll end up with a practice table like mine. Smile

Make a "rough draft" longer table top, pay attention to how much of it you need and are using, then finish the top once you've determined your needs.

As for the Gazzo and Cellini tapes, I'll have to reveiw Cellini to see where Gazzo is on it. But on Gazzo Uncensored, you can see him drawing a crowd at both a renfair an on the streets, which is priceless reinforcement for the Cellini video, if you follow me. Like BroDavid said, they're a bargain full price, if you can pick them up on e-Bay, so much the better.

Back to the cups. The Biro's are heavier than the Bosco's, which makes sense because the Biro's are bigger. The sound is similar. The top is deeper, more rounded (?) on the Biro cups, so the ball(s) aren't as likely to roll off. Some additional research has shown that the Bosco cups are very authentic to the renaissance era (Many thanks to Danny and Payne for making this abundantly clear), and as I perform as several Renfests in the Midwest, this is very important to me. The Biro cups will give me some load and flourish options, tip-over to upright, multiple balls in the attic, etc., that make them usefull to me as well. So I'll be using both sets, at different times, depending on the venue.

Hope this helps. Of course, YMMV. Have fun playing in the street.

Joe in KC
JamesinLA
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Thanks everyone for the table advice and feedback on the Gazzo uncensored tape.
Joe, What size/type of balls are you using with your new, larger cups? I found that my 1 inch knit balls looked too small on the gali gali cups.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations James,

I've got some big white crochetted balls, either 1 3/4 inch or 2 inches, that work with the Galli cups (filling well the top nest), but they are too big to nest in the attic of the Bosco cups.

I'm going to look for something a little smaller for the Bosco cups, but the big balls should work with my routine with the Galli cups, and long as I can get used to working with balls that size. (Is it just me, or does that sound like part of a conversation you couldn't repeat in mixed company! LOL)

As with all things magical; I've discovered that it's a trial-and-error journey.

Hope this helps.

Joe in KC
Carlos Hampton
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Like there were not enough options a friend of mine gave me this link. http://www.cupsandballs.nl The cups there look beatiful, maybe we can get Mr Riser opinion on this one. well.... the rolls royce of cups.

Keep cuping people. Smile
JamesinLA
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Joe,
In another post I said I found some 1.5 inch real leather stitched baseballs at Home Depot. They're in the lighting department and they are sports light pulls. All you have to do is unscrew a little brass wire out of them and viola! You've got perfect little baseballs. At the risk of repeating your mixed company concerns, at 2 inches, your balls sound too big for me. I'm really going to have to relearn my moves with these 1.5 inch ones. Especially considering the prospect of working surrounded!
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations James,

In Gazzo's book he notes using Paul Fox style platform cups made by Danny Dew, with one-inch hard silicone "Superball"-like balls, and in the photos, the balls look to pretty much fill the nest in the top of the cups.

This would be a great place for Danny to fill in the pieces if he is around, to compare the sizes of the Galli cups, the cups Gazzo has in the book and the video. Danny, help, por favour?

And, track down the Lowe's or Home Depot with the pre-cut 16-inch by 36-inch plywood, that somebody mentioned. That's the size he mentions in the book. This is where I'm going to have to go my own way. I'm going to make mine wider, because the 17-inch top I'm using now is narrower that the top of my stand. Of course, Gazzo does say about 16 x 36, so I think that may be a good start and then build to suit yourself.

Thanks for the tip on the sports pulls at Home Depot, I'll check it out.

Have fun playing in the streets.

Joe in KC
Danny Hustle
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The cups Gazzo uses.

The new $$ cups are very similar in size to the biro and Fox cups. They are heavier and obviously designed with the street in mind. They are in a word, sexy. They are also expensive. When I can afford a set, be sure I will get them and I will use them until one of us wears out.

For a difference of over $200 I am currently using the Pete Biro Galli – Galli cups. These cups are just about the exact same size and dimensions and QUALITY as the Denny Dew Paul Fox stage cups. For the record before the new $$ cups came in Gazzo used the Biro cups and he liked them just fine. The Biro cups are not “foolin’ around” cups. These are cups a real hard working professional would use. They are a bit light duty for heavy street work (8 hours a day 6 days a week 10 shows per day) but Gazzo and I used them all summer last year and ended with the same set we started with. I have a dent or two and so does Gazzo but they still nest and handle like new. I am already on my way to getting a second year out of them and I beat these cups like they stole something.

Truth be told, as a street performer I think your cups should look old and you should use this in your show. “This is the oldest trick in the world and the cups are handed down through generations of magicians passing the skill and the magic across time, etc…” This tells people you have been doing this trick for years and you learned it from a master, who learned it from a master, etc. If you are doing a routine like Gazzo’s you have learned it from a master, who learned it from a master (Vernon), who learned it from a master (Malini). A lot of us do not think of the incredibly rich and powerful history behind this powerful trick. I do a comedy show but when I do the cups and balls between the laughs the audience knows they are seeing something that takes years to master and something that is very powerful. I think that’s important to the art, my credibility as a performer, and most importantly the amount of money that will go into my hat Smile , that I get this point across in a powerful way.

For size and quality all three of these cups measure up against each other almost identically. Handling and execution is the same as well as the size load. The Biro cups can hold a slightly larger load than the $$ cups but the $$ cups are more heavy duty.

Now for the table, I have at great length examined Gazzo’s table and have spent much time talking with him about it. His stand is the exact size and dimensions as a tray stand. The only reason he built it himself was quality. Gazzo is a perfectionist and a quality freak. His stand is built from the hardest of non-brittle hard woods and put together with the best hardware. It has lasted him over 10 years and still looks new. But, it is the exact size and dimensions as a waiters tray stand. That is what I use and It has lasted me quite nicely. One tip I will give you is if you go with a tray stand do not screw or bold the straps to the stand. Make straps or buy a leather guitar strap and tie or loop the ends of the straps around the wood. I made the mistake of putting screw eyes into the sides of the stand and the first time I dropped it, it cracked. The second time I dropped it one of the screw eyes blew out.

The tabletop is just 1/4“plywood. Lay down a thin layer of padding and don’t use dense foam. Use something like air conditioner filter and pull the fabric (auto upholstery fabric NOT FELT) and stretch it tight. Then buy 1/2“ molding and frame the thing in. You now have an edge that will keep the balls from rolling off.

I hope this helps.

Best,

Dan-
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MagiUlysses
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Greetings and Salutations Danny,

You ROCK! Your tips and insight are incredibly helpful!

The patter about the C&B is great. I'm working on something similar, talking about the history of the C&B being performed for Kings and Pharoahs, etc., etc. May I have your permission to incorporate part of your patter in my routine?

Thanks, and have fun playing in the streets.

Joe in KC
Danny Hustle
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Feel free to use it Joe.

Thanks,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
JamesinLA
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Thanks for the table info, Danny, it did help! Also thanks for your thoughts and historical perspective on the cups and balls. In my normal act, I've always liked explaining about the history of the cups and have been working on a story approach to the trick in light of its history. However, in the street act I am writing, I was thinking my character would unforunately preclude the history of the cups. But now that you've reinforced the historical aspects of this "Oldest Trick in the world," I think I can see a way to work some historical patter into this new character of mine too. Thanks for the inspiration!
Jim
PS: Regarding my earlier post about seeing Gazzo's act and bits of business. I did find his interaction with the audience as enlightning as his cups and balls routine itself. However, I want to say that it is seeing his spectator interaction and his ability to involve his audience into the routine that is useful and making me rethink my own routine. It gives me a sense of what is possible which I am going to use as a point of departure. But that I don't want to lift any of his particular bits of business. Rather I want to find my own "business" that fits with my own character that I am developing. (Though I really love the squeaky toy and the three boys and three dollars and pretty girl bits!)
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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