The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » TeslaVision is coming soon.. » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
Top Hat
View Profile
Inner circle
We peed on you!
1077 Posts

Profile of Top Hat
Entity - they use a mixture, I believe.
TH Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Top Hat: No they don't.

- entity
tmoca
View Profile
Inner circle
1113 Posts

Profile of tmoca
Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the 7th Sense a James Cheung product. And isn't there a ton of controversy and accusations of thievery surrounding Cheung himself?
Xiqual
View Profile
Inner circle
Upper left quadrant
4933 Posts

Profile of Xiqual
Quote:
On 2007-02-17 06:55, shrink wrote:
Xqual I think you should keep your unit. If quality isn't an issue in your work. Or Theft isn't a problem with your ethics.

However I would advise anyone else that this is an off the shelf product that you can get at a fraction of the price and isn't modified for mentalism. It also deosn't have the extensive manual which is where the real value lies.

Personally I would feel cheated.


Well Shrink, all those NLP seminars you paid tons of money for are TOTALLY working.
I just feel this urge to do whatever you say. So subtle. I'll bet the gals really dig you man.
James
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Well whatever urge you feel it seems to be be for Biss but that is your choice. Retorting to personal jibes is really the last resort. Im flatterd by your position of weakness.

For your information corporate companies now pay me to teach them persuasion skills and do quite nicely from working with me. that's how I earn my livng these days.

However whatever choice you make I sincerely hope it works out for you. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

7th Sense is mine and always has been. 8th sense is an additional unit allowing for remote usage and was created by James Cheung. The two elements together make a very versatile product that is like nothing out there.

And for the record James approached me about the idea for 8th Sense I thought it was a good idea. So we worked together to produce the final product. All the technical stuff was created by James and belongs to him much of the applications were created by me. Its a collaboration and technical mutation from the original.
Magnus Eisengrim
View Profile
Inner circle
Sulla placed heads on
1064 Posts

Profile of Magnus Eisengrim
Quote:
On 2007-02-17 06:55, shrink wrote:

However I would advise anyone else that this [Tesla, vision, I think] is an off the shelf product that you can get at a fraction of the price and isn't modified for mentalism.


Shrink. I'm a bit confused. If the above means what I believe it does, I don't see that Mr. Biss has ripped anything off. It may be that he offers poor value, but I don't understand the ethical breach of taking an off the shelf product (that you don't own) and packaging it with a routine. Or are you claiming that Biss's routine is unfairly based on yours?

Quote:
It also deosn't have the extensive manual which is where the real value lies.

Personally I would feel cheated.


Is this the main issue, then?

Please accept these as sincere queries. I certainly want no part of the back-biting that has dominated this thread, and I don't want to drag you into those quarrels either.

Thanks

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
You buy a ripped off product at a market stall I would say that consitutes poor value for the end buyer. Unless of course the buyer is aware they are a ripp off and is happy to pay. In which case they are also in the wrong.

Its is also theft for the original manufacturer? What part confuses you?

If you want to pick holes in this you will have to try a lot harder.

Now I believe I know where to get the original materials to recreate Kopy Kat. are you saying its ok for me to go release Kopy Kat under a different name and inferior version and profit from it?

If so you are more confused than I thought.

And its a good thing the majority of the community know whats right and wrong or it would fall apart.

Dealers are pulling out to me that says everything.
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
Shrink: I think that perhaps you are misunderstanding John's post.

I believe he's asking if your product and the Biss product are off-the-shelf items, manufactured by a third party for another purpose. Are there modifications made to your product? Apart from your instructions booklet (which I hear is wonderful), what is the difference between what you sell, and what comes from the original manufacturer?

- entity
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Sorry.

The circuitry was changed to improve the vibration heads and include two heads with equal vibration. The heads are more consistent and stronger. The keyfob was also silenced. The newer cases are also custom made and are a different colour from the standard. They are opaque black instead of smokey transparent grey

We have an agreement with the manufacturer they will not make any modified versions for anyone else. 7th Sense and 8th Sense are custom jobs specifically for the mentalism market. You can only get them through us. Ive been their customer for nearly three years. They also I believe hold a patent on the technology.

However the main compnents are the same except ours has been subtly modified for improved performance.
tmoca
View Profile
Inner circle
1113 Posts

Profile of tmoca
First let me say that I don't own either the 7th, 8th, or even 105th Sense or Teslavision, so I can't fully compare the twos inner workings but I am failing to see how this argument has any validity.

I don't understand what the difference is in this issue and in say....

Ammar's topit and Cloutier's topit
Losanders Floating Table and other floating tables
Glorpy and Fabric Manipulations Ghostly Hank
Roy Kueppers shells and Todd Lassens
Wizards PK and Black's PK
Jiff and Peter Pan Peanut Butter - still peanut butter, etc, etc, etc..ad nauseam.

Unless the item, manufacturing process or designs are patented and blatantly copied/duplicated (which may or may not be the case here), then whats the difference?

There are different models/brands of EVERYTHING in life. That's that way it is. That's why we live, fight and die for this country.

If you don't like a particular brand, style, taste, function of one item, don't buy it, buy the competitors.

If your bugdet doesn't allow you to buy a Beamer, then buy a Ford. It will still get you to where you want to go.

Thumpers have been around long before anyone on this board. Designs change, are improved upon and many time take a step backwards.

What's the fuss?
shrink
View Profile
Inner circle
2609 Posts

Profile of shrink
Someone else can answer that, I can't be asked anymore. It's all in the thread if you would take time to read it.
Scott Xavier
View Profile
Inner circle
3672 Posts

Profile of Scott Xavier
Quote:
Thumpers have been around long before anyone on this board. Designs change, are improved upon and many time take a step backwards.

--Sometimes they are just step backwards and blatant rip offs of someone elses technology and hard work. DID you in any way invent anything, ever? No modifications to ones ideas is thievery...

"What's the fuss?"

--I refuse to believe a grown adult can't see the ethics involved in a non-modified device. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong, so go invent something so I can steal it and sell it cheaper unmodified.

As for the devices mentioned I'm not involved with them. We should try and stay on topic not solve all the magic worlds gripes. And I can't speak for other products I don't use and don't back. All I know is that some are modifications and some are just copies. This is a story of ethics. From what we've seen in the market, Biss has copied how many devices?

Stealing another's products and selling them cheaper doesn't make them modification they make them a rip off.

In the legal courts a device has to be changed 20% in order to be different and a new product. On top of that can you do:

--Exactly the same thing with both products? Is there any modification to the new products? If not, it seems to me like a copy.

Our societies lack of morals is quite sickening...
Jerome Finley
View Profile
V.I.P.
SLC
3419 Posts

Profile of Jerome Finley
Social disease aside . . .

This is what the consumers market is all about . . . step back for a minute and look at this exact same scenario outside of magic and mentalism.

I am in no way supporting these acts; I do not condone them. But does it really surprise you? I go to the grocery store, and see 5 different boxes of the same cereal. Some are cheaper than others. Same with computers, cars, bathing products, food stuffs, etc, etc, etc.

To truly be competitive in a buyer's market, same products are constantly being offered by various companies at lower prices. In 99.9% of these cases, the product they sell is a rip off, or the same product entirely.

Comparing Teslavision to 7th sense may not be exactly like comparing Spaghetti O's to Noodle O's, but you get the picture.

This has been educational to say the least. I did not order a Teslavision, but I would like to purchase Shrink's device.

It really sucks that these things happen, but they always have, and always will.

Best,
Jerome.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
Jerome Finley
View Profile
V.I.P.
SLC
3419 Posts

Profile of Jerome Finley
The problem as I see it, is that magic and mentalism have become niche markets.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
tmoca
View Profile
Inner circle
1113 Posts

Profile of tmoca
Settle down sparky....I am just playing devil's advocate on this matter, because it seems that many, because they have a vested interest or are acquaintance with some folks they refuse to open their eyes to reality and how the free world works.

I am from planet earth and ethics are hard to find here, especially here in the States. The business world is dog eat dog and all about the Benjamins. That's life and it won't change.

Quote:
On 2007-02-17 13:01, Scott Xavier wrote:
--Sometimes they are just step backwards and blatant rip offs of someone elses technology and hard work.


With this line of logic, I have to ask, do you think that all of the following are rip offs and the "creators" are hacks

Lee Earle's - Silver Bullet
Anthony Owen's - Changin' Glue
Roughing Spray
Fuse substance

If not, then do you think that is its okay to take someone else's hard work repackage it and put a higher price tag on it? Is that okay?

These are just a few examples of things that have NOT been modified, only repackaged. Our little magic world is full of them.

Is it safe to assume that you disagree with John's previous statement on the matter?

"You are suggesting that the application of a "found object" -- created and manufactured for a purpose outside of magic and mentalism -- that is subsequently applied to our little world, is not valid, original thinking and worthy of acknowledgment and protection"
Scott Xavier
View Profile
Inner circle
3672 Posts

Profile of Scott Xavier
I don't believe this thread is about any other product than teslavision, go start another if you want to talk about other product similarities.

Off to shower for a show.
tmoca
View Profile
Inner circle
1113 Posts

Profile of tmoca
Quote:
On 2007-02-17 14:38, Scott Xavier wrote:
I don't believe this thread is about any other product than teslavision, go start another if you want to talk about other product similarities.

Off to shower for a show.



LOL

So then I made my point. You are picking and choosing which products fit your mold and ethics. If you don't agree, you say that the rules don't apply.

The fact of the matter is that it is either okay, or not okay, for ALL. Not just those you support....so which is it?

This is exactly why I love to take the opposing position on such topics. So many close minds.
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
From what I gather, Shrink is saying that the manufacturer of this item makes alterations specifically at Shrink's request, alterations designed to make this item more useful and adaptable for his re-sale to the Mentalism market.

If I've got it right, the Tesla item is exactly what the manufacturer sells, without improvements, changes or modifications. "Straight out of the box", if you'll pardon the pun, given the items original useage.

Shrink claims to have a deal with the manufacturer so that he alone will sell the modified units, although it seems that anyone can buy the unmodified units for their own use, or to re-sell them.

The question, therefore, becomes fairly straightforward: Whether to buy the modified device that Shrink sells, along with his highly praised book on instructions and routines (whose modifications and routines, Shrink obviously feels, are worthy of his asking price);

OR to buy the un-modified device from James Biss, who is basically acting as a middle-man, but who includes his own set of directions and routines (for which, I assume, Biss feels entitled to add a considerable mark-up from the Manufacturer's price;

OR to buy the un-modified device with no directions or routines (well, not Mentalism routines, anyway) directly from the manufacturer, now that Shrink has tipped his source.

Using this particular device (with his modifications and improvements) for Mentalism is Shrink's idea. It seems that, after Shrink has done this for a period of time, someone else coming along and selling exactly the same idea without the improvements is rather bad form, if perhaps not technically illegal.

I can't imagine that two Mentalists discovering the exact same device happened purely by accident, but I may be wrong.

- entity
entity
View Profile
Inner circle
Canada
5060 Posts

Profile of entity
By the way, isn't Paul Pacific, the fellow who actually started this thread, the one who started all this trouble? Isn't it against Café policy to advertise commercial products?

Early on in this thread, I stated that I'd been told the Tesla thing was different than Shrink's item. I was told this by Paul Pacific. I should have known better. Paul is a self-admitted "dodo" when it comes to technical gizmoes.

Sorry if I helped to lead anyone down the garden path.

- entity
tmoca
View Profile
Inner circle
1113 Posts

Profile of tmoca
Quote:
On 2007-02-17 15:42, entity wrote:
It seems that, after Shrink has done this for a period of time, someone else coming along and selling exactly the same idea without the improvements is rather bad form, if perhaps not technically illegal.


Welcome to the world of retail magic.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » TeslaVision is coming soon.. » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.26 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL