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John LeBlanc
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Well, this page of the thread sure gives new meaning to the topic.

John
Escamoteurettes, my blog.

"One thought fills immensity." -- William Blake
The Mental Lentil
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I heard Teslavision speeds up the whole process.
Dhal is murder
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-02-18 15:21, shrink wrote:
Dear James is there no end to your inability to get your research right?

I was never tarred or featherd for anything. I have only ever released two products. IA pads and 7th Sense. Every action you take just shows without any doubt you don't research anything what so ever.

I had no connection with Osterlinds product. Are you really a school teacher?


Can anyone really believe anything that comes out of your mouth?

If anyone is being unreasonable it is yourself Biss. But then this is your trade mark. Tesla will always be available aka the Oyster Duo sex toy. At a much more reasonable price. a third of the price like yours it isn't silent.

Did you ask for that review not to be published? I wonder why.

I do my research I think you should do yours.


Shrink, is it true Biss contacted you? You said he did not.
In the end, this will only boost your sales of "7th sense duo oyster sex toy"
James
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The Mental Lentil
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How very apt of you to come down on the side of the rip off artist, Linn.
Dhal is murder
Xiqual
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On 2007-02-18 20:58, The Mental Lentil wrote:
How very apt of you to come down on the side of the rip off artist, Linn.



Why thank you "Lentil"
I am pointing out that Shrink said Biss did not contact him. Biss said he did contact Shrink.
What is the truth.

I understand that it's bad form to try and stop a witch hunt on the Café.
I mean really, what else would we do with ourselves if we couldn't condemn others?
James
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
The Doctor
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James, I believe Shrink was refering to the fact that Biss did not contact him prior to release, not when the proverbial hit the fan. I don't agree with witchhunts but I do think there is a valid case to answer here. In what way do you think Biss did nothing wrong?
Xiqual
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On 2007-02-18 22:34, The Doctor wrote:
James, I believe Shrink was refering to the fact that Biss did not contact him prior to release, not when the proverbial hit the fan. I don't agree with witchhunts but I do think there is a valid case to answer here. In what way do you think Biss did nothing wrong?


Hi Doctor,
I am not at all saying Biss did no wrong. I just find it annoying in these cases that whenever clarifying questions are asked, the people involved start saying things like "Since you have diminished reasoning capacity." or "Well, Biss stole before so OBVIOUSLY he is guilty."

The whole oyster sex toy thing sums up one of the things I hate about magic. Some beanhead finds an off the shelf item that can be used for magic or mentalism, repackages it and jacks the price 400% then complains when somebody else does the same thing.

Another problem is the double standard. Our boy Scott X does the research and finds the oyster duo is being sold as Tesla and puts it up for all to see. However, if you look on another page, he is very excited about the cheaper PK rings that have been discovered for $7 In these matters I do believe character has a little to do with what is being said and who is being accused.

In business this type of thing is par for the course. Magic and mentalism, I don't know. Shrink says he made mods to the oyster duo. What mods?

I believe you could actually just buy one and use it "as is"

James
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-02-18 17:49, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-18 17:28, mindguy wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-18 09:31, The Doctor wrote:
In a court of law, if the accused remains silent or doesn't turn up, he would be held in contempt and/or an inference of guilt would be drawn from his silence.


One of the drawbacks to the UK legal system; the accused in effect has to prove his / her innocence.

Were this "trial " held in the US, no such nonsense would matter...In principle it's up to the prosectution to bear the burden of proof beyond a resonable doubt..the vocal response or non response isn't germaine to the trial...Or rather should it be...


So if you are on trial, you are suggesting the best way to get off is to say nothing?


If I'm on trial it's not up to me to prove my innocence...it's up to the Crown Prosecution Service, or, in the US, the District Attorney to prove my guilt, "beyond a resonable doubt".

Not to stretch too fine a point here, but OJ said nothing, and a jury of 12 men and women found that the prosecution didn't convince them..
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


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The Doctor
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:

In business this type of thing is par for the course. Magic and mentalism, I don't know. Shrink says he made mods to the oyster duo. What mods?

I believe you could actually just buy one and use it "as is"

James


You could but you'd be compromised. Before the previous thread was deleted Patrick Redford posted a review. I own a 7th Sense and I am aware of the mods made to it. The manual and routines are more than enough to justify the extra £20 in price. You can be as scornful as you want James but you have your brand of ethics and others have their's: believe what you want to believe, the issue here is quite unambiguous. Shrink did not take an off-the-shelf sex toy and repackage it. He actually put some thought into the adaptation and its application to mentalism. That in itself is worthy of the extra cost. You probably resent the fact you never thought of it first. The funny thing is, I have a feeling you will probably now buy the Oyster not Tesla or 7th Sense because that is the sort of person you are.


And Mindguy, OJ was not silent, he had a mouthpiece called Johnny Cochrane.
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:

In business this type of thing is par for the course. Magic and mentalism, I don't know. Shrink says he made mods to the oyster duo. What mods?

I believe you could actually just buy one and use it "as is"

James


You could but you'd be compromised. Before the previous thread was deleted Patrick Redford posted a review. I own a 7th Sense and I am aware of the mods made to it. The manual and routines are more than enough to justify the extra ?0 in price. You can be as scornful as you want James but you have your brand of ethics and others have their's: believe what you want to believe, the issue here is quite unambiguous. Shrink did not take an off-the-shelf sex toy and repackage it. He actually put some thought into the adaptation and its application to mentalism. That in itself is worthy of the extra cost. You probably resent the fact you never thought of it first. The funny thing is, I have a feeling you will probably now buy the Oyster not Tesla or 7th Sense because that is the sort of person you are.


And Mindguy, OJ was not silent, he had a mouthpiece called Johnny Cochrane.


When I read the first part of your post, I was thinking, "Finally someone that sums it all up." I see that you have a 7th sense, are aware of the mods and can see the value. Good on you for making it clear finally!!

Then when you said "You probably resent the fact you never thought of it first."

That's hilarious. I'm not an inventor. I don't walk around life trying to think of mentalism applications. I foster no resentment toward people that are successful.

Here is where you really need to polish your crystal ball because you said

"The funny thing is, I have a feeling you will probably now buy the Oyster not Tesla or 7th Sense because that is the sort of person you are."

The kind of person I am? Please, Tell us about "the kind of person" I am.
LOL



BTW, I cancelled my order for Tesla and I won't be buying any of these contraptions.
I'm off to read Corinda [again]

James [that kind of person] Linn
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The Doctor
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 09:31, Xiqual wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:


The kind of person I am? Please, Tell us about "the kind of person" I am.
LOL





The kind of person who will jump to the defence of a blatant huckster notwithstanding the facts of the situation are clear cut. I agree that in some cases of alleged theft the lines are blurred but not in this case. The evidence is unambiguous and ***ing. Teslavision shouldn't have been allowed to be sold in the first place. Period. I ask you again, how would you explain how Teslavision came to market?
Xiqual
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[quote]On 2007-02-19 09:40, The Doctor wrote:
[quote]On 2007-02-19 09:31, Xiqual wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:


The kind of person I am? Please, Tell us about "the kind of person" I am.
LOL





The kind of person who will jump to the defence of a blatant huckster notwithstanding the facts of the situation are clear cut. I agree that in some cases of alleged theft the lines are blurred but not in this case. The evidence is unambiguous and ***ing. Teslavision shouldn't have been allowed to be sold in the first place. Period. I ask you again, how would you explain how Teslavision came to market?


No one ever made the facts clear until you stated them in your previous post.
I will defend anyone's right to be heard.

Doctor, to you and others that own the device, the case is very clear. I only heard of this form Biss' ad. I was totally suckered by the whole Tesla B.S.

The only thing I know of Shrink's 7th sense were some vague references to it a few years ago, and some arguments between he and a few others about his ad wording.

I do remember that his original 7th sense was around $700.

If you look over all the posts, you will become aware that you are the first person to write that you actually owned a unit and are aware of the mods Shrink put in. Before that time, it was very unclear [at least to me] what was the basis for this charge. It's also true that when John had asked for facts in this situation, he was put down by Shrink. I believe Shrink said that John had limited reasoning capabilities.

It's all moot anyway. Shrink will make more from this whole thing than ever before.
The magic and mentalism machine will continue to chug and churn out more garbage than any of us can ever use, and I'll be right there with you all, buying it and storing it away for that special show when regular mentalism just won't be enough.
James
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shrink
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7th sense has always been £185 and go through these two or three threads you will see a number of very satisfied customers. do a search and you will find more however 7th sense was always low key. I always wanted it to be low key. I could've made a lot more money out it should I had wished.

James your worse than your friend Biss.

As for John all the facts are in the threads I don't have time to repeat myself to those that can't read threads.

Yes there were arguments that the ad wording was hype by those that never had it. Before it was released.

However after it was released no one complained because the ads were accurate.

The first electronic system I ever bought was from JOhn Tremaine. It was unreliable and gave me electric shocks. I paid £850 for it 15 years ago.

Once again no research. You guys crack me up.

Go back to 13 steps!
The Doctor
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[quote]On 2007-02-19 09:54, Xiqual wrote:
[quote]On 2007-02-19 09:40, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 09:31, Xiqual wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:


The kind of person I am? Please, Tell us about "the kind of person" I am.
LOL





The kind of person who will jump to the defence of a blatant huckster notwithstanding the facts of the situation are clear cut. I agree that in some cases of alleged theft the lines are blurred but not in this case. The evidence is unambiguous and ***ing. Teslavision shouldn't have been allowed to be sold in the first place. Period. I ask you again, how would you explain how Teslavision came to market?


No one ever made the facts clear until you stated them in your previous post.
I will defend anyone's right to be heard.

Doctor, to you and others that own the device, the case is very clear. I only heard of this form Biss' ad. I was totally suckered by the whole Tesla B.S.

The only thing I know of Shrink's 7th sense were some vague references to it a few years ago, and some arguments between he and a few others about his ad wording.

I do remember that his original 7th sense was around $700.

If you look over all the posts, you will become aware that you are the first person to write that you actually owned a unit and are aware of the mods Shrink put in. Before that time, it was very unclear [at least to me] what was the basis for this charge. It's also true that when John had asked for facts in this situation, he was put down by Shrink. I believe Shrink said that John had limited reasoning capabilities.

It's all moot anyway. Shrink will make more from this whole thing than ever before.
The magic and mentalism machine will continue to chug and churn out more garbage than any of us can ever use, and I'll be right there with you all, buying it and storing it away for that special show when regular mentalism just won't be enough.
James



Thank you for that post James, I understand where you are coming from now. I also support everyone's right to be heard and no one was or is stopping Biss from replying. If you recall, lots of people were inviting him to reply. His rather longwinded and banal reply yesterday served to do nothing except try and pass the buck and laugh it all off as a big joke without addressing the real issues. His deliberate sabotage of the Tesla mythos to serve his own financial ends is also incredibly 'below the belt' (no jokes please).

I am pleased to hear you have cancelled your Tesla order. Maybe if more people did that it would send a message to the people who enabled this kind of theft in the first place that it is wrong and the community will not stand for it.

And FYI, I bought 7th Sense 2 years ago for £185. I still have the receipt.
shrink
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I don't think James is standing up for the community. I think though he should thank me for saving him making a costly mistake.

Go on James you know its the right thing.It takes a big man to admit he was wrong. Show us you have bigger balls than your hero Biss.
Reuben Dunn
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[quote]On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:

And Mindguy, OJ was not silent, he had a mouthpiece called Johnny Cochrane.


Or in other words, He had a lawyer defend him...just as you would want a lawyer to defend you...

The Prosecution, in the eyes of many, this transplanted Caifornian among them; manged to pull defeat from the jaws of victory....

At the end of the day, the burden of proof is not on the accused...if you're not happy with this legal fact, then perhaps you might want to suggest an alternative?
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


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The Doctor
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This is not about legal semantics. I could argue jurisprudence and the differences between adversarial and inquisitorial processes all day but I have never once disputed that the onus is on the accuser. Not once. Can you point me to where I have?

Shrink has presented his case (most compellingly I might add) and asked for Biss to present his. Biss's silence until yesterday was very telling. He neither had a lwayer to speak on his behalf nor did he speak in person. There was just silence....

So you are saying silence is a defence? In this country, you have something called 'judgement in default' when the defence fail to produce a defence. My point is that failure to proudce a defence is not a defence in itself. A concept that you have completely missed.
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[quote]On 2007-02-19 14:58, mindguy wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 07:36, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-19 01:48, Xiqual wrote:

And Mindguy, OJ was not silent, he had a mouthpiece called Johnny Cochrane.


Or in other words, He had a lawyer defend him...just as you would want a lawyer to defend you...

The Prosecution, in the eyes of many, this transplanted Caifornian among them; manged to pull defeat from the jaws of victory....

At the end of the day, the burden of proof is not on the accused...if you're not happy with this legal fact, then perhaps you might want to suggest an alternative?


That's not my quote Ruben. I didn't say that.
James Linn
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Daegs
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Doctor, there is a difference between being in a court room at your own trial and staying silent, and not reading / responding on some privately own magic forum that you do not even visit very often and could therefore be unaware there was anything that even needed your response.

I think far to often I see people assume that everyone spends 24/7 on the magic Café reading every post... I know *MANY* magicians that don't even know the Café exist. Even the ones that do might only visit once a week or once a month.

The fact that someone who isn't a regular, posting every day member of the Café took a little while to respond shows nothing more than he might have more important things to do that bicker on some internet chat forum.

I posted this in the other thread but seeing as how it'll probably get locked and/or consolidated into this thread, reposting it here(its a possible situation of what happened):

Personally, this is a situation that makes complete sense:

Biss finds sex toy, orders sex toy, inquires to the manufacturer. The manufacturer, wanting to sell a 50-100 units(or whatever) in bulk, ignores what he said about being a magician and sells him the units, but refuses to make modifications because while they can ignore knowing he was using them for magic, they couldn't ignore making modifications that they shouldn't be making(per arrangement with Shrink).

Biss hears about other thumper devices on the market, notes higher price tag or currently un-availability and thinks to himself "Hey, those are custom units and I'm buying mine straight from the people who own patent, so because my device is un-modified that other product would be infringing upon the patent if they were the same, so they must not be the same!"

He thinks this, gets the product on the market and then finds out about shrink's product in more detail, stops selling them and apologizes.

Shrink ask manufacturer about it, they say "no way he didn't tell us he was a magician" to shrink while keeping all of Biss's money from the units AND money from manufacturing Shrink's units.


TO ME, that situation makes complete sense. If biss knew that they had a patent on the design and they said nothing to him about making units for another magician(in order to get Biss to buy units in bulk), then he should have no reason to think he would be copying anyone elses design, because he was buying from the patent holder.

it makes more sense than Biss *knowingly* throwing money into buying units in bulk to rip someone off only to stop right away makes no sense. And don't give me this "well he was caught". If he DID know they were the same, then he knew he would get caught from the get-go.

Nothing said has made what I believe to have happened wrong, which is why I would like some evidence before we continue this lynch mob going after Biss.
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 10:18, shrink wrote:
I don't think James is standing up for the community. I think though he should thank me for saving him making a costly mistake.

Go on James you know its the right thing.It takes a big man to admit he was wrong. Show us you have bigger balls than your hero Biss.


Hi Shrink,
I think you are an irritating little man with the personality of a toilet brush.
I'm not right or wrong about anything. I don't have a dog in this fight.

It's easy to see that you will face many more of these frustrations in your life.
You have the uncanny ability to make people wish you bad luck. How do you do that?

Must be all those NLP seminars you teach for BIB BUCKS to corporations around the world...... oh please.
James
ps
Ok, I guess I was wrong about the price of 7 sense, sorry it was three years ago and a bit obscure.
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
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