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shrink
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No but you do have your money.

You could at least thank me for that. You can now buy an oyster for a third of the price.

I wish you good luck James.

I think you h ave a lovely personality. It amuses me no end.

Your memory was obscure you mean.
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 18:15, shrink wrote:
No but you do have your money.

You could at least thank me for that. You can now buy an oyster for a third of the price.

I wish you good luck James.

I think you h ave a lovely personality. It amuses me no end.

Your memory was obscure you mean.


I have my money back, yes. I won't buy an oyster, that is your deal Shrink.
James
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
shrink
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Wise move james stick with basic mentalism it would be wasted on you.

And now my work is done

Time to move on.
Samuel Catoe
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Daegs,
I will give you credit for the possibility you present and will say it could happen like that. However, when someone on the street who has a reputation for being a thief is found with stolen property in his possession police are less likely to believe his story. Such is the case with Mr. Biss here. There are several instances in the past which throw a shadow on his reputation and lead people less than likely to believe his alibi.

Sam
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The Doctor
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The Catoe has spoken.

Bon Appetit buddy.
JamesBiss
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Gentlemen...Gentlemen,

I'm sorry if some of you perceived my very long and detailed response to Mr. Shrink's self serving attacks to be flippant. As you must be aware the matter is of great seriousness and concern to me and to Mr. Shrink. It was most sincere.

(That's why I contacted him in good faith as soon as I became aware of the problem of the similarity of our two products - mine in stores around the world and his being sold, privately to his friends both based on the same device that I was an authorized distributor for from the patent holder - who curiously neglected to mention to me of Shrink's existence or his own application despite my requests for exclusivity for the magic and mentalism market. That's why I unilaterally offered to stop shipping my product, as a gentlemen, to leave the market wide open for a newly resurrected version of the same device from Mr. Shrink himself...)

This is a matter of some seriousness, but given the wackiness of Mr. Shrink's attacks and frankly the subject matter, I think a little levity would be most welcome. Certainly Mr. Shrink has been very busy, on multiple threads, even new ones, stirring up controversy over something I'd already corrected to his exclusive benefit... Hmmmm... Makes on wonder what's really going on here...Who benefits from all of this?

Certainly my e-mail correspondance with Mr. Shrink and with the patent holder is most telling. I looked over it all again today and while it's obviously of a personal business nature it does contradict what Mr. Shrink seems to be telling you all here about my discusions with himself and also with the patent holder.

Hmmmm.. Stay silent and let Mr. Shrink spew forth like a cheap London tabloid with nonsense on the nonsense...or share corespondance with a couple of people that may be objective in these matters... hmmmm...

MindGuy (for example) may I share with you some correspondance that might shed some light on all of this for everyone? James you're far too clearly supportive of me, your opinion of the facts of the matter wouldn't be treated with respect - but it would be fun to share them with you. Sam? You seem to be convinced I'm a thief and write frequently about my immorality. You're hardly objective or unbiased clearly...but maybe you might look at some source documents before you attack me any further without justification...

Just a thought for anyone interested in facts as opposed to cheap shots about a wonderful little product that people who actually own and use the thing - love...

You know my PM...

Good night,

James
James Biss
Samuel Catoe
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James,
You are correct that I am not unbiased. I do feel you are taking other people's work and repackaging it as your own. I have looked at the instances as the cases were presented (your statements as well) and come to my own determination. This is what we must do when presented with such incidents where we do not know all the facts. You have taken from others before without their consent and apologized for it. You were commended for that, but we all know it is easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.

It appears you have taken from someone again. Knowing you have done it before does color my judgement some, but not so much that I cannot see. It is only after reading your alibi that I have come to the belief that you did know of the existence of 7th Sense at some point prior to marketing Tesla and chose to do so anyway. If this is not the case, so be it. I will not change my feelings and from here on any products you market are suspect to my eyes. You do join the ranks of a legion of others though so do not feel lonely. Even Harry Keller found it necessary to steal from his competitors.

You do seem to be a nice fellow James, and I am sorry that we cannot be friends.
Author of Illusions of Influence, a treatise on Equivoque.
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BIlly James
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 18:03, Daegs wrote:

If he DID know they were the same, then he knew he would get caught from the get-go.




Unless he could show he was inspired by an idea that pre-dated Shrink's.

Hang on a minute...didn't someone fabricate something like that on Wickapedia?!?! Oh, but that was only for a 'joke' wasn't it.

;)
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-02-19 15:06, The Doctor wrote:
This is not about legal semantics. I could argue jurisprudence and the differences between adversarial and inquisitorial processes all day but I have never once disputed that the onus is on the accuser. Not once. Can you point me to where I have?

Shrink has presented his case (most compellingly I might add) and asked for Biss to present his. Biss's silence until yesterday was very telling. He neither had a lwayer to speak on his behalf nor did he speak in person. There was just silence....

So you are saying silence is a defence? In this country, you have something called 'judgement in default' when the defence fail to produce a defence. My point is that failure to proudce a defence is not a defence in itself. A concept that you have completely missed.


And my friend, with due respect, if you noticed on this thread http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......5&25

It's been done already...

By the by, it's not a case of the defence failing to produce a defence that is at issue here; rather that it is the prosecutions job to provide more than speculation, the burden of proof, a phrase that you seem to want to ignore for some reason; has to be on the accusser and not on the accused.

So far "Shrink" has provided little more than speculitive conjector on his claim that Biss "stole" his product. Biss on the other other hand, as noted in the link above, offers to provide "proof", for want of a better term, for his side of the arguement.

Why not take him up on his offer, examine it for yourself, and then make your accusation, if there be one? Others have taken him, Biss, at his offer for copies of emails, and have arrived at their own conclusions, some of which have been publically posted.
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


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The Doctor
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Quote:
On 2007-02-20 02:47, mindguy wrote:
And my friend, with due respect, if you noticed on this thread http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......5&25

It's been done already...

By the by, it's not a case of the defence failing to produce a defence that is at issue here; rather that it is the prosecutions job to provide more than speculation, the burden of proof, a phrase that you seem to want to ignore for some reason; has to be on the accusser and not on the accused.

So far "Shrink" has provided little more than speculitive conjector on his claim that Biss "stole" his product. Biss on the other other hand, as noted in the link above, offers to provide "proof", for want of a better term, for his side of the arguement.

Why not take him up on his offer, examine it for yourself, and then make your accusation, if there be one? Others have taken him, Biss, at his offer for copies of emails, and have arrived at their own conclusions, some of which have been publically posted.


My issue, if you can be bothered to look it up, arose when Biss was silent. Now that he has piped up you are saying you were right all along? You are unbelieveable.

I fully welcome his new found voice and look forward to perusing what he presents. That has been what I have striven for all along. I have never once argued with the burden of proof only taken issue with his silence yet you are are trying to claim some kind of victory in an argument I never once disputed. Grow up.
shrink
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I came back to the Café for one reason. To stop someone ripping off 7th Sense.
He had the option to resolve this privately but didn't take it.

I am now happy that the matter has now been resolved and Tesla has been removed from the shelves.

I thank those that have given me support.

This is my last post on the Café and as far as I am concerned the matter is now closed. I am satisfied with the outcome.
Reuben Dunn
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Quote:
On 2007-02-20 06:55, The Doctor wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-20 02:47, mindguy wrote:
And my friend, with due respect, if you noticed on this thread http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......5&25

It's been done already...

By the by, it's not a case of the defence failing to produce a defence that is at issue here; rather that it is the prosecutions job to provide more than speculation, the burden of proof, a phrase that you seem to want to ignore for some reason; has to be on the accusser and not on the accused.

So far "Shrink" has provided little more than speculitive conjector on his claim that Biss "stole" his product. Biss on the other other hand, as noted in the link above, offers to provide "proof", for want of a better term, for his side of the arguement.

Why not take him up on his offer, examine it for yourself, and then make your accusation, if there be one? Others have taken him, Biss, at his offer for copies of emails, and have arrived at their own conclusions, some of which have been publically posted.


My issue, if you can be bothered to look it up, arose when Biss was silent. Now that he has piped up you are saying you were right all along? You are unbelieveable.

I fully welcome his new found voice and look forward to perusing what he presents. That has been what I have striven for all along. I have never once argued with the burden of proof only taken issue with his silence yet you are are trying to claim some kind of victory in an argument I never once disputed. Grow up.


Now, now, no need to get your haggis in a twist, or resort to throwing your dummy out of the pram...

While you may "welcome his new found voice" ( A nonsense if you've been following this rather disjointed saga.)I still note that you have yet to acknowledge what Biss has offered up as his side of the story...

Your issue was that you had,and still give the impression that it is up to Biss to prove himself innocent. You chose to take sides with a fellow kilt wearer, rather than hold off on making an opinion until both sides of the arguement were aired in public; not an easy thing to do when Shrink decides to cry foul on multuple threads, which in and of itself makes me think of a child throwing a tantrum, and wanting all assundery to hear about it.

Am I wrong? Really?

Well..All this brew ha-ha could have been boiled down into a sinlge thread, either here, or on the restricted area. Shrink decided, for whatever reason, to air this on more than one thread..why? More readership? Or a wish to "prove" he is the wounded party here...

As far as your request for me to "grow up"...I refuse.

My mind would become more like yours I fear, closed, opinionated, and rather rude.

Son, Methinks your kilt is on a bit too tight, or that perhaps the oyster/7th sense is inserted a tad too high up the thinking part of your back passage.
Good Thoughts.


Reuben Dunn


www.reubendunn.com
The Doctor
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A bit touchy are we Reuben? Have I hit a nerve? You still haven't acknowledged the fact that I never once questioned the onus of proof. Even a simpleton can see that.

Yes, I have considered Biss's argument and seen his proof I still believe that he is guilty of putting out a copycat product. Whether he did it intentionally or not is still debateable as I have seen nothing that suggests total ignorance. If anything, he is guilty of bad research (again). I am satisfied. If you are satisfied of the opposite, good for you, you enjoy it.

The manufacturer did not help matters but it does not excuse p I s s poor homework and a disregard for crediting or acknowledgement of prior work .

And don't start coming all holier than thou since I recall that you've been less than an example of your high moral standards on more than one occasion. I apologise for insinuating you might be close minded. That assumes that you possess a brain.
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