I hope it's okay to ask a really, really ignorant question... Rope magic is something I'm only recently getting into.

I've got a whole bunch of rope magic resources and I'm trying to make heads and tails of it all. Basically, I have Stewart James's Encyclopedia of Rope Magic, Tabary's Elegant Rope Magic, Daryl's Expert Rope Magic (3 volumes), Richard Sanders's Fibre Optics, and Flip's Truly Magical Rope Magic.

I came into the genre after watching Sanders's DVD (which blew me away), but I wasn't really hooked until Tabary. Both Tabary's main act and Sanders's one-rope routine share a common element that makes it all happen, and I wanted to try to research more about that aspect of rope magic. This'll be difficult to talk about without exposing it, so I'll just go forward on faith that you know what I'm talking about (how to do those repeated cut & restores without scissors). After watching both of those I decided to dive it and try to get as much as possible, hence the recent irresponsibly numerous purchases.

In any case, in trying to research more, I picked up Daryl's DVDs, Stewart James's Encyclopedia, and Flip's DVD, and I was a little bit disappointed -- not because the magic wasn't good, but because it wasn't what I was looking for. Flip's was alright, but the majority of Daryl's work and James's Encyclopedia seemed to encompass things that I wasn't as interested in studying -- false knots, traditional cut and restores, grandmother's necklace applications, etc.

It got me wondering about whether or not there was something I've been missing because I'm so new to the genre. Is there almost an old school and new school approach to rope magic these days, with the old school being more focused on driving home the impossibility of a single feat, and with the new school being more manipulation-based? Also, is it my imagination that there's been a rise in the popularity of ring-and-rope routines? In searching through James's Encyclopedia, the ratio of cut-and-restored to ring-and-rope seemed disproportionate to the popularity of the two facets of rope magic today.

I'm sorry if my question is poorly-phrased and suggests that one branch of rope magic is superior to the other. I don't mean for it to come across that way.

Rope magic is rope magic, use the term 'new school' if it makes you feel better but it isn't. There is some very good magic mixed in with a lot of filler, Daryls vids are a great example of that. One thing you really should look at is the grandmothers necklace principle, very good magic can be done with it. The more naturally a rope is handle the better, manipulation with rope just detracts from the magic (most manipulation detracts but it makes many feel good about themselves, that being more important that the performance or magic to some).

I know exactly what you mean although I don't know the answer. I think you could probably find most of the Richard Sanders moves in the James encylopedia. For example his "middle off" move starts with one of the traditional cut and restored moves. Whit Haydn's very popular Mongolian pop knot routine is made up pretty much entirely of "old-fashioned" moves. Dean's Box caused a minor sensation when it came out but was almost entirely a reworking of old moves.

As for ring and rope, I like very much the "Out of the Loop" move which is in both Karl Fulves and James but I've never seen anyone else do it.

Erlandish
There is some creative rope, plus some ring and rope routines posted at http://www.magicvideodepot.com performed by Roland Henning, who combines "fiber optic" moves with all of the one rope moves from Daryl's "acrobatic knot".

There are lots of things you can do with a simple rope routine like "full circle" by adding some Richard Sanders "fiber optics" moves.

I strongly suggest you buy the Dennis Loomis "knot routine plus" DVD, which has rope tricks that are so old they are new again. I like to combine Dennis's routine with all of the one rope "acrobatic knot" moves.

Those books you refer to only contain the building blocks of rope magic, you must use those blocks, and think out of the box to make your own magic.

Living in Korea perhaps you have access to the work of Shigeo Takagi a Japanese rope magician who handled a pair of scisors like a Samari warrior.

I hope that gives you some ideas
Al Angello

PS- To "think out of the box" is an American expression for "being original".

The Father of most of the more popular rope tricks seen today is George Sands. It is the foundation of Tabary and so much more. Get the Sands' books and you will have the foundation.

Truthteller is right. Get a start. Frankly, for entertining PEOPLE I find Tabary's stuff way to complex, repetitive and not that commercial. When you see real world guys like Micheal Finney KO an audience with nothing special you will find the routine that FITS YOU is what you need.

So... just sit back and THINK OUT what you would like to have with a piece of rope. How long? Not the rope, the time of the routine. Easy to set? Complex to do and remember?

Added props, like a ring or a silk?

Will it really fool anyone? Will it REALLY ENTERTAIN?

Funny aside. The one routine I use I bought over 40 years ago and with refinements is still the strongest thing I do with rope for laymen. Another that I've had for maybe 30 years is killer for magicians and only lasts about 90 seconds... but kills.

Well thanks for posting about the other rope magic videos. I've really only used daryl's and been very happy with it. I like doing rope magic because it's so easy and can get great reactions.

Funny Titan
Welcome to the magic Café. It is good to see someone posting at knots & loops that is as enthusiastic about rope magic as I am. If you look at those videos by Roland Henning you will get some ideas of what else you can do with the stuff on Daryl's DVD's.

Come on guys "buy another reference book" is not an answer, you're just offering him the fast shuffle.
HAVE FUN
Al Angello

Al,

I've actually had the chance to talk to Roland about this. He certainly knows his stuff. I'll see what I can find out about Shigeo -- Korean/Japanese sentiment being what it is, it might actually be easier to find his stuff back home in Canada than over here...

Pete,

I've got a routine that I'm looking forward to trying out, but it's untested. I have to admit that rope magic didn't really interest me all that much until I saw Fibre Optics (yes, I'm one of those), and then Tabary hooked me. I'm a big fan of multi-phase effects. Hopefully it doesn't end up being one of those routines that plays stronger to magicians than it does regular audiences... crossing fingers...

Truthteller,

Thanks for pointing that out. Somebody else mentioned the same thing to me... I've got a line on a revised Ropesational. Are there other/better books out there that deal with Sands's rope magic?

Hi

Surprised Pete, that you find the Tabury routine “way to complex, repetitive and not commercial.” I find it truly magical and a couple of the phases have a jaw dropping, sharp intake of breath effect on the audience.

I have dropped a few of the moves that I found unconvincing and I don’t do all the fancy knot stuff. I just do a very basic version that entertains and impresses people with my seeming skill. I talk to the audience and have them respond all the way through the routine. I explain that this is how we teach the new kids in their first year of Wizarding school. It’s magic for freshmen wizard – if we let them do more difficult magic they might wreck the school, so we give them a rope to practice their spells on. I introduce it like this “If I asked you to take a rope like this and to make it into two ropes of equal size, what would you do? You’d fold the rope in half like this, then you’d take a pair of scissors like these and snip it in half here at the centre point, but that wouldn’t be very magical, would it? No! So at wizarding school we teach a spell that goes like this…..

The Mongolian knot Routine is really only an extended version of the professors nightmare but brilliantly scripted by a brilliant entertainer.

Tabury, I think, is the only person who can perform the routine the way he does it. I think the rest of us have to perform it our way. I think he’s one of the best things to happen to rope magic in years.


Prof. Alexander

Francis Tabray, Michael Finney, and Mac King are the only people that can do their routines, and make them work. All the other stuff I've seen is learnable, of course the moves of Shageo Takagi can only be learned if you are lucky enough to have one of his old tapes, which he teaches in Japanese. Mr. Takagi died back in the 1990, and his "Vishnu rope mystery" is so absolutely beautiful, it will easily fool most magicians. Mac King does Takagi's third cut, and restore move, and I do his second cut, and restore move. Of all the 15 or so rope tricks I perform regularly I like the Dennis Loomis, and Shageo Takagi's stuff the best, but like Roland Henning I have found that a good mix of current rope routines gives you a routine that is all yours.
Al Angello

That's interesting, Pete. Tabary's stuff is the only rope magic that ever grabbed me in my 60 years around magic. When I saw him do his routine silently to music on the "Worlds Greatest Magic" TV show, I thought, "Holy cow! This man is a real artist." When he released the works on video, I could scarcely believe that he would freely share the secrets to such a fine piece of magical art.

I don't know about PEOPLE, but I consider it one of greatest performances of magic in our time.

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

So Glen do you do Tabray's rope routine?
Al Angello

No, I don't. I just admire it. I have to limit my magic to a handful of routines because of my heavy involvement in art and music. If I ever decide to do ropes, Tabary's stuff will be my choice.

Best regards,
Glenn Godsey

I was stunned by the Tabary Routine when it was first released and spent an ungodly amount of time to perfect it before I used it in a show.

When I finally did it for a show, I got to the point where the knot slides down the rope and it fell off! Instead of panicking (well, I did panic for a second) I picked it up and said "Now we are on the horns of a dilemna. We have two ends without a rope and a rope with no ends!" I untied the knot and proceeded into the replacing the ends bit, blowing on them and restoring them and got the better ovation than I did at the end of the trick.

That was my last public performance of the routine. I still love it and have cannablized parts of it for my own routine.

Eric Lewis published a beauty of a multi phase routine in a small booklet. Check his son's website if it is still around.

Erdenac toured Europe with a single piece of rope (my bet is Tabary was inspired by him)... but Erdenac's routine was much cleaner and more entertaining.

Again, there are no rules... if it works for YOUR AUDIENCES that's what matters.

Get the MAGIC OF HAVANA by Jose Del A Torre..Cordially,Howard

Sorry forgot Keith Clark's ROPEHECTIC..Howard

Graywolf
I try to stay up on rope magic, but you have suggested two people that I have never heard of. Is there demos of these two routines? Pete is famous for suggesting tricks that have been unavailible for 40 or more years. Are these guys two of Pete's friends?
Al Angello