I think some of the greats even today, like to drink and smoke up for sessions.. This is going to cause some *&%# I know but whatever... I know for a fact, its not a secret

Eric you are right. I have been getting email to me talking about how just some people ignore it. Are these greats rude when they are under the influnce?

Bairefoot

Personally, I do think it is rude. Just because one is considered a "great" is no excuse.

If one is hired to do a job, whether it is teaching a magic lecture, painting a house or driving a school bus, one should have the decency to display appropriate behavior while "at work." Being "under the influence" is not that.

What they do on their own time, in the privacy of their own home, is their business. In public...well, that's another story.

Just MY 2 cents! Mark.

With all due respect, driving a school bus is not showbusiness. Magic is show business. There are many comedians and others who find having a few drinks an important part of their pre-show work. Not my taste, but I don't think we should be so quick to judge, especially if the person's behavior is not out of line. My 2cents.

While I understand the sentiment behind "not judging," I also think that "not judging" can go too far.

How many people could have helped out guys like Belushi, Chris Farley, or Mitch Hedberg, but didn't, because they didn't want to "judge," and figured that the drug use was part of the "price these guys paid" to be "artists."

I say, forget about not judging, and worry about helping. I wish somebody would have had enough judgement to step in and help these guys, so I could still be enjoying their stuff today.

Not saying to rush out and hand out AA cards to everybody holding a Coors. I understand that many people can have a couple of drinks to loosen themselves up and have it not be an issue. But I am saying that your options aren't limited to either "judging them" or "leaving them alone."

The thread was not started about how to deal with people who were coming to ring meetings a little "loose" from a couple of drinks. It's about people who are obviously high or stoned--as in, they're so far under the influence that, were they performing in a respectable venue, they'd probably get fired.

Unless they were David Blaine. He'd get fired if he didn't come across as mildly strung out.

But again, that just goes back to my point about other entertainers.

Talented performers with serious substance abuse problems shouldn't get a "pass" in the name of their art. They should be helped and supported in the name of our love and respect for the things they do.

Well said Doc.

Driving a school bus is not show business. You are correct and that was not the point.

The point is they are hired to do a show. Out of respect for those who are paying them, and those attending, should be enough courtesy to do a job sober. Not "drunk, stoned or high" as is the name of this thread.

It's ridiculous to think someone should get a pass from common courtesy just because they might be "great" or not. If they can't do their job without having to "be loose" or "drunk, stoned or high," then they have a lot more issues to deal with and hopefully will figure that out before it is too late.

Mark.

Right on...

I can assure you if someone has smoked some pot..They will not be a nuisance in any way.. It just doesn't make sense.. When drunk, to be annoying, you really have had to overdone it. And it would be very apparent, not just the smell. Behavior style

Its a personal choice..as long as its not a nuisance to anyone.

I think many people would be very surprised to know just how many people "they look up to" in the magic world use substances to enhance their creative process in sessions.



No one is talking about when they are hired to perform. We are talking about casual situations like ring meetings and attending lectures etc. That's the whole point of this disscussion... (I think!) hehehe

I like the way you think. If it feels good, do it. Who cares? It doesn't bother anyone, they can do whatever they want, there is no respect for others or the situations they find themselves in, etc...Who cares?

After all, maybe they can be more creative in the process. Wow...what could I have been thinking?

Maybe we can all meet and get loose, smoke some pot and whatever else we can find and go hang out at a meeting. After all, it's just a magic meeting or a lecture. You know...casual. What's the big deal about showing up drunk, stoned or high? Why people will just look up to them even more.

Hmmm...what a great idea. Wished I had thought of that.

hehehe

Mrunge that is a great reply. Everyone here has been a great help. By looking back at some of the replies it is very clear that some people just ignore it. that's fine if they want to I guess. But I wonder how many of the greats I mean greats were had substance abuse. I am talking about people who have done magic working for the people in the real world. I think when it happens in meetings some people's thoughts are Well I will over look that because he has done so much for our club or magic and maybe I can learn somthing. Thanks again everyone.

Bairefoot

One of the stages of a serious substance abuse problem is the point at which the person can no longer "handle it." It might start with a drink or two to get loose, and for some people, it never progresses. For others, they get to the point that they are obviously impaired.

As for Ring meetings being no big deal, I have seen some people treat them that way. I have also seen some very talented people who approach a performance at a Ring meeting with the same standards that they bring to their professional work. I admire these people. They are cultivating a habit of professionalism and excellence.

Sometimes, I have to refer a potential booking to someone else. It's not hard to pick out the people worthy of a referral.

Yours,

Paul

Again...That is very stereotypical..

Are you saying you would refer a magician who you know would do an "ok" job over a very good magician who you know would do a killer show..because he smokes pot or drinks? Makes no sense... sounds like you are bitter.

Dear Eric,

It's not that I am bitter, and I don't admire temperance over performing ability. It's just that the best performers that I have seen are not knocking back a few before their performances. If it makes you feel better, we can think of that as a coincidence. Now everybody's happy!

Yours,

Paul

Hi Paul

I am not talking about paid performances.. I am talking about casual situations... like ring meetings and lectures etc... I would never drink or smoke before a show..

Eric I think you are missing the point. A ring meeting or some ring meetings are trying to make better performers and for some just a chance to perform. If someone is visting the ring or new and sees someone under the influence at a public meeting like a Ring Meeting this could be trouble. I would not want those people saying yeah that had this guy who was high but he did great stuff. And sure would not reccomend anyone who came high or stoned to a club meeting for a paid performance or let them be on any public show that the ring is doing. Becuase how do I know he want show up that way?

Bairefoot

I think you should ask what's so bad about the ring meetings that they feel they have to get inebriated to get through them!

Oh! This reminds me of a story that the late, great Robert Anton Wilson liked to tell:

A little boy sat on a park bench, eating a candy bar. When he finished the first bar, he reached into his bag and removed another. He ate that one too. This continued until he reached for his sixth candy bar. Then, the man sitting on the bench across the way, said "Hey little boy, you shouldn't eat so much candy."

The little boy replied, "You think so? My grandfather lived to be 106 years old."

The man said, "And did he eat six candy bars at a time?"

"No. He minded his own ******* business."

(Censored for Magic Café policy.)

From the mouths of babes, as they say.

Gordon - very funny, and I agree completely. I'll have to remember that one!

I will say that there is one "big name" that I have never seen sober, and it bothers me. His name is Steve Barbetzee or something like that. I swear this guy is loaded at every convention he works. His speech is so slurred you can hardly tell what he's saying most of the time. His friends should do an intervention.

Omg are you serious? He has a Speech Impediment... I cant imagine it being a joke on your part. Because that would be one of the cruelest comments I have ever seen on the Café.

He has done major work along the years and now his speech is almost perfect. He's been written about many times in magazines and even had the cover of The Linking Ring recently. He's amazingly tight and I wonder how you could have even thought he was drunk with all the great reactions and laughs he gets.

Michael, thanks for clearing it up. I understand your point. All ring meetings have different formats. Where it takes place is a considerable factor in substances being consumed. Let it be a beer before or during the meeting, or some pot before coming to the meeting. I still say its a personal choice, if they are not a nuisance. Some magicians see a ring meeting as a night out. Away from their wives/work etc. They want to unwind a little..

As long as there are no children and it's done in good taste. No one should complain about a thing.

I will back up Eric here. Steve was bit by a dog when a child and left permanently disfigured. He had many reconstructive surgeries and has worked tirelessly to improve his speech. I know for a fact that he does vocal excercizes daily. Bad form, Bsears. You owe Steve an apology.

My intent was not to offend, if that was the case, I appologize.

My intent was to make a point about judging people. Others in this thread have suggested that those who appear under the influence at IBM events should be confronted. Can you imagine if someone approached a person they thought was drunk or stoned only to find out they have a medical condition?!

Often we don't know peoples backgrounds, or if they have just had surgery and are on pain killers, etc, so it we should use caution when making assumptions that someone is "loaded."

For the record, I have a huge amount of respect for Steve. I know he has a great sense of hunor and I would hope that he saw the point I was trying to make. If I recall correctly, he has actually been accused of being drunk while performing in the past. That's wrong, and that's my point.