Hello all,
I've been playing with the herman and invisible turnover passes. I was wondering, should 'turnover' part be done vert slowly (ie., taaking about 3-5 seconds) if you don't have any angle problems? I was trying this and it seemed that if you 'get ready' then when you turnover you can do this extremely quickly and the card on the face just changes.
It seems tit should either be done very fast or quite slow, what are peoples' preferences?

Are you wanting to do it as a secret move or a Color Change? As a secret move, you're just turning the deck over. As a color change, it should happen a little faster, to make the change instant.

I think it partly depends on the application of the move and its context. However, the angles are pretty well covered if you tilt the deck down a bit. That being said, I personally do the turnover not too quickly, but still not too long before the turnover of the upper half. The move should be completely invisible. Give it some mirror work and find out what works for you.

Cody

How fast would you do it if you were turning over the deck? That's what I'd strive for. It shouldn't be the moment that the magic happens. Turn over the deck, allow some time, then make the magic happen. Make the turn over incidental and unimportant.

I think to ensure the operation goes smoothly, make sure the bottom card is buckled and pushed off. The look is very casual and does not draw any attention. Jay Sankey has a nice one using Turnover Pass in Volumn 1 of his Secret Files with an effect called What If.

Hej otter606

Do you mean the 'get ready' part of the pass? If you do, take as long as you want (if angles allow) I sometimes hold the two halfs at 90 degrees to each other with just my R hand. Just watch your L side!
Rob

Thanks all, will keep practicing!

You finally revealed the best secret in doing Pass for a large audience invisibly. This concept can be applied to Classic Pass also.

Why does this concept work? Pass is a reciprocating action. Doing two motions separately makes each motion inconspicuous. Doing reciprocating action too quickly, it produces a distinctive moment onlookers sense.

Of course this concpet is useless if your purpose of doing Pass is to boast your quickness and skillfulness.

Hideo Kato

IMHO, this thread should better be moved into the restricted area.

Andy

I pretty new to the MagicCafe and must confess, I don't know what/where the restricted area is!

Sorry, I should have checked . . .

You need more than 50 mails in order to have access.

Andy

Check this for speed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qKfsPznxMc

Some of it's done 'face-up' but of course, the pass is a 'utilized move' not an effect.

Check out Steve Braun's Midnight Shift.

There was a brilliant additon to this move published in MAGIC about 4 years ago. By slightly re-gripping the deck, the move becomes a lot more deceptive. It is well worth checking out...

Harry Lorayne has interesting take on this move in one of his DVDs.

I believe it should all depend on the performing situation and the appearance that the performer wants to give.

All the Best,
magicianguy4life

I would urge you to check out my buddy Philip Young's "Hermann Pass Variation" from his wonderful book entitled... "Fingers Don't Entertain, People Do!"

Let me also recommend Aaron Fisher's "The Paper Engine" for a very good lesson on the Herrmann Pass

By the way, the name is spelled "Herrmann" after Alexander Herrmann, who supposedly favored this pass. He isn't credited with inventing it.

Steve Draun.