To what extent is NLP a viable tool for the working mentalist? Are there any recommended books or other learning resources of value?

In my humble, personal and doubtless ill-informed opinion, NLP is about as much use to a working mentalist as a wet fish. As a triumph of hype over substance, it seems to me to have few equals. Those aspects of NLP which work and which might be of use are obvious, while those aspects which are non-obvious are not necessarily well-founded, or useful, or even sensible.

NLP may be useful as a patter theme, a cover story which punters 'buy' unquestioningly, but that's about all.

I'm constantly amused by the references to Derren Brown and his 'use' of NLP techniques - a classic case of confusing method with presentation. DB did go on an NLP course. He has the framed certificate in his flat. Did he find it of any use? No more than he states in 'Pure Effect', which is, not much use at all. Except, as stated above, as a good source of patter themes and cover stories.

But now we have supposedly serious students of mentalism signing up for 'courses' on NLP hoping to emulate Derren's feats. Presumably, these same people purchase large-scale buzz saws so that they may then replicate David Copperfield's Buzz Saw Illusion.

To paraphrase Samuel Johnson-

"NLP is both good and original; but the parts that are good are not original, and the parts that are original aren't good."

I took an NLP course years ago, and whilst it has a few uses in therapy i.e. curing phobias, confidence building etc., it isn't half as amazing as some folk claim. It's simply bits of behavioral therapy and hypnosis wrapped in hype and given a New Age twist.

Ben

Regarding Derren Brown and NLP, here are quotes from his latest book Absolute Magic, p. 53:

"Understanding the role of suggestion...
[no] need to get into such exaggerated nonsenses as NLP to use it."

"...[NLP] will allow you to sound like someone with no real social skills..."

"...mixture of part common sense... part reasonably effective techniquess for...
phobias... and the rest over-hyped and evangelically-packaged seductive rubbish."

I wish to point out that I personally *don't* have any experience of NLP. I just quoted Derren since he was referred to above.

I think it is fair to conclude that his "explanations with regards to NLP" is mainly part of the presentation/image.

Sincerely,

Matias

(Note: I posted this message originally on another board)

(Note 2: I warmly recommend Browns book)

Hi,

I don't find that Derren Brown utilizes much NLP at all. He has had a taste of it from attending a seminar some years back. Derren, does I believe, utilize some elements for some of the presentational aspects of what he does. And that he does superbly! I don't consider him an authority on NLP or even mentalism for that matter, but I do consider him expert in what he does do. Please don't try to emulate Derren - he is a good performer, and I appreciate some of his thoughts and contributions as an author and innovator, but we don't need another Derren Brown. The first one stands all by himself.

As for NLP - much misunderstanding abounds.
I think it is a wonderful tool for entertainers to utilze to enhance their performances, and become better at what they do. BUT it is not so much about doing "tricks" as it is about interacting with your audience, making yourself a better performer or communicator, using language effective to control choices and direct thinking, control your mental state and much more. Yes, you can use it as Kenton Knepper demonstrates in his Wonder Words series to create some effects - but think of it more as a personal and professional tool than as a secret technique for performing "tricks".

As a personal development tool I consider it top of the line. Although you need to find training in it by a qualified trainer -

anyway I have trained it world wide for over 22 years. Been involved in performing magic and related arts for 41 years. I wouldn't want to live a day without either - both are great.

Learn NLP for yourself, but not to be a clone. You will find great things of value if you investigate it, utilize it and master it - but it takes work in some cases just like learning complex sleights takes time to learn and master.

And much misunderstanding, misinformation and ill-formed opinion abounds from underinformed ill equipped people in the magic community who comment with no first hand expereince. None here that I've noticed (want to be careful - as this post is not about anyone) but there are people who know nothing about a topic but act like they do. And there are people who claim to know a lot about NLP when they really don't here and in the field of NLP.

Anyway 2 cents by Rex

Rex,

Welcome to the site - it's great to see you here. I'm VERY interested in what you do - and I LOVE your web site... (anybody else reading this, go and check it out.) It's so BIG!

Best wishes,

Drew McAdam

Drew - has anyone ever told you you're the spitting image of Uri Geller? (But who's the other bloke..?)

Hello Martino,

I would like to recommend a few books for people which will assist them with many things other than just script-writing:

'Phoenix' by David Gordon & Maribeth Meyers-Anderson.
'Hypnotherapy Scripts' by Ronald Havens & Catherine Walters.
'Transformations' by Bandler & Grinder.

These are all along the lines of 'therapy related' books, but I believe we are all therapists in disguise.

Hope this helps. Cheers!

I don't recall mentioning that I wanted to be the next Derren Brown. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of what he does, but in the words of the Highlander "There can be only one!" I was merely interested in knowing if NLP can be a useful tool for the mentalist (or magician too). The jury seems to be out on that one. I'm of the opinion that the more skills I can use to improve my performance of magic, so much the better!
Thanks for your input!