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g0thike
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Folks,

Need some advice.

I am trying to design a treasure chest for the following effect:

I want a treasure chest, I can carry, hold in my hands, show it empty and then make the treasure-coins and pirate loot appear.

I have seen the Enchanted Treasure Chest sold at magic shops, while I like the look, I am not very happy with the tip-over trunk principle applied. I don't want to have to cover the sides.

Any suggestions are Welcome.

G0THIKE
Bryan Gilles
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How about something like a flap box or one of those boxes you switch cards with (just the concept)?

-Bryan
Cliffg37
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I think you could take the lid off the box, show it empty and have coins and necklaces cascade out of it just like the chinses rice bowl trick.
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Michael Baker
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I think both the ideas above are on the right track. Visualize a chest with lid that operates somewhat like ball vase. It can still be hinged and opened to show empty or "full" as you wish. A handful of loose items atop the gimmick will offer enough movement, and therefore "proof" that the loot pile is deep. Unless you must later empty the contents from the chest in front of the audience, this will easily fool the eye.

I made a production treasure chest from an idea by Tom Palmer in his illusion called "The Sorcerer's Cellar" in Tops' Treasury of Illusions. A very thin gimmick riding atop a hollow chest made the chest appear to be overflowing with coins, pearls, and a variety of other riches.

~michael
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g0thike
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Guys,

Good ideas, I thought about Black Art and a flap. But I think I understand what Michael is saying.

I believe he is saying that the thin gimmick would be atop the treasure chest lid, with the treasure glued to the other side hidden from view. Then on your command, mechanically it would fall down to the chest and reveal the treasure.

Any other ideas?

G0THIKE
Michael Baker
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Essentially. Better to close the lid on an empty chest, and re-open leaving the flap, shell, gimmick (whatever you wish to call it) behind. I would not want it to fall into position.
~michael baker
The Magic Company
g0thike
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Michael,

Does the "The Sorcerer's Cellar" in Tops' Treasury of Illusions book show you how to construct the gimmick to release and make it stay when you close it?

G0THIKE
Dan Efran
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Quote:
On 2007-02-05 19:09, g0thike wrote:
Michael,

Does the "The Sorcerer's Cellar" in Tops' Treasury of Illusions book show you how to construct the gimmick to release and make it stay when you close it?

G0THIKE


Sorry to resurrect an ancient, ancient thread, but I'm interested in building this exact same thing, exactly...so I wonder if g0thike ever got it working, or if anyone else has experience with the same idea, or if Michael Baker has anything further to say about how it worked out for him? (Michael: thanks for identifying the relevant plans! Good to know.)

I'm not sure if I really need the plans - the concept is pretty straightforward, and I have a nice box I can use - but I am curious whether anyone has had good or bad luck with this illusion...or any interesting thoughts about it since 2007.
Michael Baker
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Thanks for digging up this "treasure"! I had overlooked it and the question posed to me. The effect in TTofI is just for a production chest of jewels, not a chest that produces jewels. However, the top of this open chest is basically a lid that is covered with jewels, gold chains, coins, etc. so that it takes on the appearance of being a chest full of the same.

The idea for the effect being discussed here was to use a similar concept, but with the real lid of the chest to be over that. The two "lids" would operate like double doors on a Die Box... show the box empty or full, as you wish. The comparison to a ball vase was because this would have a more 3-D aspect to it with the curved lid.

Hope this makes things more clear.
~michael baker
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Spellbinder
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Combining the lid action with a bottom tip piston load chamber would allow for a comedy routine where you find the treasure chest only to open it and discover no treasure inside. Then a coin or ring falls on the floor and you wonder where it came from. Without looking, you open the lid and the kids can see the box full of treasure, and you toss the ring on top of the pile and close the lid. Now when they scream that the box is filled with treasure, you open the chest and show it is still empty inside. You can work this awhile, but then pull up the piston load chamber and end with the box really filled with treasure that you pour out into a bowl. The box is empty at last, but thanks to the lid gimmick you can have it suddenly fill back up again so it seems inexhaustible.
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Dan Efran
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Quote:
On 2011-03-30 00:08, Michael Baker wrote:
The effect in TTofI is just for a production chest of jewels, not a chest that produces jewels. However, the top of this open chest is basically a lid that is covered with jewels, gold chains, coins, etc. so that it takes on the appearance of being a chest full of the same.

The idea for the effect being discussed here was to use a similar concept, but with the real lid of the chest to be over that. The two "lids" would operate like double doors on a Die Box... show the box empty or full, as you wish. The comparison to a ball vase was because this would have a more 3-D aspect to it with the curved lid.

Hope this makes things more clear.


Thanks! That's pretty much exactly what I'm thinking of, too.

It sounds like those plans won't help with the hardest parts, so I'll just wing it.

Die Box and Ball Vase are certainly good analogies. At first, I was thinking about it more like a Dove Pan with an actual load between the lids, but I think the shell (with glued-on treasure) is more workable.

Quote:
On 2011-03-30 01:14, Spellbinder wrote:
Combining the lid action with a bottom tip piston load chamber would allow for a comedy routine


That routine sounds very entertaining! I love the bit about throwing something in without looking. Classic!

Now I need to find out what a piston load chamber is. Smile
Mike Maturen
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I would suggest a modified dove pan concept. You could have the bottom of the load appear like the inside of the lid so you can show it "empty", and have the top of the load appear like a pile of coins, jewelry, etc.

I also like the previous suggestion of the "ball and vase" concept.
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Dan Efran
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Quote:
On 2011-03-31 10:51, worldofwondermagic wrote:
I would suggest a modified dove pan concept. [...] I also like the previous suggestion of the "ball and vase" concept.


My first thought was of dove pans, too. But in this context of a treasure shell in a hinged box, I'm not sure that a "dove pan" concept and a "ball and vase" concept are really very different. Can you elaborate on what you'd do differently?

I'd love to have an actual load chamber in the lid (rather than just a shell)...but I'd be worried about noise....

Quote:
On 2011-03-30 01:14, Spellbinder wrote:
...you toss the ring on top of the pile and close the lid. Now when they scream that the box is filled with treasure, you open the chest and show it is still empty inside...


I'd think the ring could rattle around between the lids, making noise or even getting damaged.

...Unless it's magnetic and the inner lid is shim steel. Then it'll cling, merging with the glued-on treasure. (I'm thinking the inner lid probably should be metal anyway, to keep it thin...so making it ferrous seems worthwhile if you think you might do this bit with the ring.)

You could do this in reverse, too: use the treasure shell to show how full the chest is, but pluck an item or two "out of the pile" for your next bit. This also makes it seem more convincingly to be a pile not a shell.
George Ledo
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A number of years ago I saw a treasure chest made for "Peter Pan," which was really cool although it was not intended as magic. The inside of the lid was lined with a red plush material which then extended over the opening in the chest and was secured to the sides. Then the entire surface of the fabric was covered with jewels, necklaces, and other stuff. So what happened when you opened it was that it looked like it was overflowing.

I could see a similar idea here, with the fabric being attached to the "flap" and folding up inside. Hope that makes sense.
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gianni mattiolo
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Iwould use the same principles of the rice cup.. using the internal concavity of the classic trasure lid.. ala ball and vase...
just my point of wiew
malaki
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Years ago I attended some art classes at the state fair grounds art museum. Inside they had a clam shell packaging unit that would heat up a large sheet of plastic until it bowed downward. When the button was pushed, the framework would fall to the tabletop and a vacuum was applied, causing the plastic to form fit around whatever was on the table. What impressed me most was that someone had placed a coke bottle, laying down on the table. The resulting "shell" was a perfectly formed shell of the coke bottle and everything else on the table.

Check with packaging companies to see who creates clam shell packaging. By setting up your "treasure", you could get a full sized shell made that could be painted on the reverse side, making a perfectly sized shell to fit within the lid of the chest, hinged to the lid. A few items placed on top of the shell with sticky tack could easily be extracted from the shell. By dressing the under side of this shell to look identical to the inside of the lid, you will have a very impressive production of "loose items".

I know that you said that you were trying to avoid a tip over trunk, but If this shell were set up on a tip over trunk, the final load could be an assistant, who is the "true treasure".
randirain
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A tip over chest is out of the question?


Randi
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