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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Finger palm (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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thedisciple
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Are there any among you who use classic palm almost never, relying on finger palm all the time? I am curious to know. I myself find it not much of a problem to classic palm. I started decades ago and it feels quite natural to classic palm. However I found two highly respected teachers of magic who have spoken about this. I seem to remember that Al Schneider said it took him a long time to master the classic palm although his magic with or without the classic palm is simply brilliant. I also read a book by Gary Ouellet who said that he could not classic palm, believed that people had hands that could or could not classic palm, and seemed to have built all his coin magic around finger palms.
I keep feeling I classic palm too much and do not extract from the finger palm its great potential. Any comments might be helpful.
phedonbilek
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Greece, Cameroon, France
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I personally rely very much on CP, but do FP a lot as well. Some routines do not require CPing at all, and in this case I just FP... I think -and many will disagree- that a FP is more natural than a CP. Hands FPing look far more natural. If you observe people when they handle things, when they gesture while talking, when they're resting their hands on a table etc., you realize they could be finger palming a coin.

That said, I still believe that the CP is necessary since although the FP does not have the limitations of say the thumb palm, it is far from providing the versatility and the advantages of the CP.

My two-cents

Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
Michael Rubinstein
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As Roth says, Having a good classic palm is like having 7 fingers on each hand - meaning your hand is a lot more free. That being said, there is a place for everything, and times a FP is great, and times when a good CP is best!
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solidimageartsllc
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I use them both constantly, and at times, switch between the two during a routine to show the fingers open and the palm empty. -Dan
Take infinite pain to make something look effortless - Michelangelo
DStachowiak
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I remember hearing somewhere (Roth? Ammar? Wilson?) that John Ramsay had a great deal of difficulty with the classic palm, due to having smallish hands, and developed ways of working that tended to avoid itmost of the time.
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info2victor
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I agree with Mr. Rubinstein that there is a place for everything.

The fact is when being utilized there are some things CP can't achieve but FP can (and vice versa). E.g. different subtlies and thus you can show different parts of your hands. In view of that it highly depends on the setting you are in. For example, when I'm doing chest-level magic I use FP together with edge grip all the time so my hands are in a position more natural than using CP.

So IMHO there is no one thing better than the other. Just learn whatever you can and choose the one best suits the situation.

O one more thing, there is a tiny twist in FP... you can actually tilt the coin a bit instead of laying flat against the fingers. This is mentioned in Shoot & Apollo's DVD. I find it very useful.
It only takes a minute to learn how it is done, but takes a lifetime to learn how to do it.

You've got a coin?
vinsmagic
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sleeping with the fishes...
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Not many can do a good classic palm me included,,, most magicians I see classic palming look like they are squeezing oranges by hand...
I use my own technique the crimp that I developed over a life time of magic I can do any thing from this palm,,,
vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
rannie
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I just have to chime in here...
The Crimp has so many features and merits just like the finger palm. One thing I like about it is the freedom of movement for some effects. Certainly every move requires a diff palm. This Crimp has myriad applications.

Having said that, I still work hard on my classic palm. Reed has a new DVD on the Classic Palm. I suggest you guys watch out for Vinny's new project!

Rannie
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."

-Rannie Raymundo-
aka The Boss
aka The Manila Enforcer

www.rannieraymundo.com
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DStachowiak
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The examples I have seen of Vinny's "chops" with the Crimp are astounding.
Vinny, I hope to see your DVD released soon!
Woke up.
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Fingers
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I find that the classic palm is not a necessity, but can be very helpful in a lot of routines and save you some heartache in many more routines. Maybe I am lucky or something, but I think I am very successful in making my hand look quite natural when classic palming. I am not saying other sleights aren't as good, just that the classic palm can be a very valuable tool.

However, I may change my mind if I could get a chance to look at how that "crimp palm" works Vinny, like maybe with a new DVD, hint.....hint.....hint.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
magicman899
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I find both to be valuable slights.
Jonathan Townsend
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Ossining, NY
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Quote:
On 2007-02-05 22:17, thedisciple wrote:
Are there any among you who use classic palm almost never, relying on finger palm all the time? ...


Yes, though that came as an unhappy revelation based upon having WET hands.

About a year after focussing on Ramsay's magic, (which makes extensive use of Finger Palm) David Roth lectured and opened the doors to Edge Grip Mechanics for us. I started to explore Edge Grip and that pretty much settled things as of 1977.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
sethb
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I also tend to prefer a finger palm over a classic palm, because at least for me, a FP is 100% reliable, which is not always the case with a CP where I am concerned.

However, a good FP also requires a fair amount of work. For example, as Al Schneider has noted, most FP instructions advise using the second and third fingers. For many people, this causes problems with "windows" between the fingers and unwanted flashing. Al suggests using the third and fourth fingers instead, which I found to be much better overall, and which also solved 95% of my "window" problems.

But I'm still working on my CP, so that I can vary my methods as needed. And let's not forget the thumb palm, which is slightly tougher than a FP, but still easier than a CP, and very deceptive when used properly. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC
MagicJohnH
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The CP takes longer to develop but I think it is one of the best methods to hold out a coin. The FP is also a must to develop but can be mastered a lot quicker. If you can learn to do both you are well on the way to being able to do some very good coin magic. I practice my CP while at work on the computer. I practice with both hands to see how long I can keep them there without loosing one.
Mb217
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There is no way around not giving these moves the practice they deserve. Everyone wants a time period on when these things are mastered. It depends on how quickly you pick up the information, your hands, your muscle memory (keyword is "your."), etc. You got to put in the time, no way around that. If you do, you will benefit greatly. The guys than can really blow here, practice all the time, any time they can...even guys that are already regarded as good-better-best. And they all use the same basic moves to make all this stuff happen. So what you learn in practicing the basics, is what they had to learn to be able to do what they do. Actually, once you learn the basics (unbeknownst to you), you are then pretty much eqipted to do pretty much anything in coin magic...only stagnated by your effort and desire to learn more and progress. It took me a while to understand this, but once you can pretty much master these basics, I mean really have a fluent handle on them, then you are ready to go out and tend your own land. Or, you are then capable to go out and do routines that others have put out there. All of them are doable with practice and diligence. So, go through Bobo's and learn the sleights as they lay them out. Go through them all, you have time. Smile You will end up using the CP, FP, TP, T/G Pinch, Shuttle Pass, etc., moreso than anything else. For the most part they are the foundations of nearly all these effects in one way or another. Of course, there is much more to making it look the way these guys do it so effortlessly, but once you learn the method, based upon the due diligence to know and be able to do what you need to know, then you will see, pretty soon you will venture out on your won (well, maybe not "pretty soon") Smile but you get the message. So practice, practice, practice. I do it everywhere, everyday and I can tell you that I am much better than I was before. All of us are about the same in that way of things. Smile Good luck. -MB
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Jaz
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I'm in agreement that some people have hands that can CP and some do not.
I've worked on the CP a long time and have come to the conclusion that I won't ever do a really good CP. I still try though.

Like the Godfather and JT I use alternative grips/palm in lieu of the CP.
FP, EG, Front Finger Clip, Thumb Palm, Purse Palm and something I believe is similar to Vinny's Crimp. A couple of these have allowed me the freedom of movement that the CP does.
dxsare
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The classic palm is something great to learn down cold, but it will take some practice... a lot of practice if you want it to be undetectible. I was never too confident with my CP until I just started palming coins everywhere and all the time. Then it just got pretty easy, and has become second nature. Now I'm working on multiple coins with the CP and it's actually easier than I thought it would be. I can even load coins into CP that already have coin held out silently, and this has opened up a lot of doors for me in coin magic. I will admit, I only use the classic palm when it is necessary, and always resort to the finger palm, edge grip, downs palm etc when ever I can. People tend to want to see the inside of my palm when I hold out in CP, but when I finger palm a coin and they see both sides of my hand, they usually give up trying to look for the coin.

Stevie D
-Stevie D
mithrius
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Chicago, IL
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I'm a FP kind of guy. I would rate my CP skills at above average, but I just think FP is more natural and convenient. It's just a hop away from CP anyway.

Besides, the Ramsey subtlety outclasses the Downs subtlety by a light year, by my judgment.
Mb217
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Think the "Liwag Subtlety" is perhaps even better than that...Smile -MB
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Fingers
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That's a good one MB!
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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