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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-10-01 15:26, Jeff Corn wrote: That was kinda my question. I don't want to rip into the guy, if he dosen't think there is anything on there he can use, that's fine. Still it's kinda hard to take someone seriously when they make a statement like "I have shown the dvd to many lay people and they typically say..."looks like he did something there."" DUH! Of course if you put on a DVD with a guy dressed in his western gambling garb, handling cards under a spotlight and tell people to watch closely...they are going to see "something". If you sit at the card table and say "Hey guys! Watch this and tell me if you see anything" before you move, people are gonna see that as well.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
As a card enthusiast, you can't watch these DVD's and not see "something". But, I really think that's not the point. It's up to each viewer to decide which moves or methods he likes and tailor them to his own performing style. I purchased all of Richard Turner's DVD's and I'm glad I did.
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Dan Andrus New user 38 Posts |
We still need to be honest with ourselves. What did you think of the two extra magic effects at the end of that dvd? He held his hand so awkward in hiding the extra cards that he basically dipped his hand under the table out of view. I guess you call that shade or misdirection. His son that he used as his audience could see everything also. My 5 year old said "daddy he's got too many cards."
I consider myself a card enthusiast also, but there was no value here. I think sometimes that we often need to see something in order to believe that a move was actually made. If we do not "see something" than we might think that nothing actually really did take place. I personally believe that Steve Forte is the best. You really cannot see the moves unless the video is slowed down. There is a currently a great youtube video of him. I just want these dvd's to sometimes live up to there hype. The comment that I had made about lay people seeing everything was more of a general comment about magic tricks also on the video. I understand your point if you say "do you see anything?" than they are going to see it. I have shown countless performance only effects from my dvd collection to non-magicians and waited for their comments. Lay people are not dumb. They do see bad moves. Bad magicians usually live by the motto "They didn't see it."...when I fumbled for the double lift, etc... Lay people are often nice enough not to embarass the magician. I love this hobby like the rest of you guys, but are we just doing tricks for each other and not trying to really entertain people? There is just so much garbage being sold out there. Hey Silverking" you know that I am right on this one. Your pompous response tells me everthing about you....Just keep hanging out with your magic buddies and do tricks for each other. It takes guts to entertain people. |
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
I certainly agree about the two tricks. And, I should say that I didn't like everything I saw on the videos. If I get one or two worthwhile ideas, moves, etc. from a book or DVD, I'm usually satisfied.
I agree about Steve Forte. He's one of my favorites. Excels at everything he chooses to show. |
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Dan Andrus New user 38 Posts |
I agree with you Nicholas on how at times we can find enough value in the books and dvds to justify the purchase. If one effect becomes becomes a pet routine of ours for years to come, then the purchase is invaluable. I do not mean to "pick on" Richard Turner. As I kid, I watched him on "That's Incredible" and immediately wanted to learn bottoms and second dealing. I also wish I had the time and dedication he has for practicing the craft. I guess I just expected more from his dvd.
I am 42 years old and basically jaded when it comes to what is available on the magic market. I enjoy it when a magician totally fools me with an effect. Unfortunately, most of what is available out there doesn't even fool non-magicians or has no entertainment value. I live in Michigan and have been fortunate enough to be friends with Ron Bauer, Milt Kort (who had passed away), and Bob Stencel (who moved to Oklahoma years ago). Simply put, they are extremely knowledgeable of the craft and a joy to watch perform. I just want to see good magic performed correctly because it fuels me to wanting to learn more myself. I guess I turned this posting into a philosophical rant. Maybe the approach that is being taken at the "What is Theory 11" website could be a step in the right direction for the magic market. The bio on Chris Kenner mentioned how much he enjoys watching bad magic by magicians that think they are good. I agree it can be very funny to watch at times and there is plenty to choose from. |
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Vandy Grift Inner circle Milwaukee 3504 Posts |
It's fine to rip a DVD or a performer. Personally I think the tricks on the DVD are junk and I watched them once and moved on. But to come out and say "every move on this DVD is flawed" and that Dai Vernon could not have approved of thses moves makes me think you are taking pot shots at Turner or you are just being intellectually dishonest.
Take the dive shift or just a simple table hop. The fact is, stripped completely bare, the move is visible. Neither Vernon or Forte could make something like that look any better.(I believe Vernon does a table hop at some point on Revelations) It is what it is. Many of the moves he teaches really aren't very good for magic,and are only good for card table artifice when carefully choreographed, in games where the misdirection is strong enough to allow the move to pass. As I said, if you hated the thing and found nothing of use. That's cool. But I would not say that everything on there is un-useable, by anybody, ever. It's just not true. P.S. I don't want to come off as a shill for this DVD. I don't have as big a beef with it as Mr Andrus apparently has. I'm just trying to lend a little balance. I stated above that I didn't see a lot that was new on it, but I think there is some value there for some people. And I also happen to think Forte is as good a card handler as I've ever seen.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
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Dan Andrus New user 38 Posts |
Point well taken Vandy. I may have went alittle overboard on the critique. I guess I was just expecting much more from the dvd. Genii magazine recently did a cover story on Richard Turner and I was anticipating much more. I was angry with myself for falling for another one of Richard Kaufman's overhyped articles.
Richard Turner may in fact had spent a lot of time with Vernon....I really don't know. My Vernon comment was more of a shot at many of the magicians out there who sometimes attempt to build up themselves by saying that they knew him personally.....as if just by spending any time with him makes themselves an expert. It's time to move on....I still am looking for some good dvd recommendations? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
"This is another outcome of our constant but ever failing efforts to devise a perfect shift,..."
- Erdnase - Dan Did you expect, when you bought a DVD on Shifts, Hops, and Magic Passes, to see perfect shifts? If that is what your looking for I recommend you stop looking.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dan Andrus New user 38 Posts |
Hey Tommy....I know what you are getting at. No shift or pass is perfect. After all the hype, I was expecting something at least close to it on this dvd. I have witnessed excellent card workers with more "game" when it comes to shifts and passes. Bill Kalush has the best pass.
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
In my opinion, the best item on the any of the DVD's was his demonstration of double push off seconds.
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magician8 Veteran user 383 Posts |
This seems really good, I think I might give it a try.
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