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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » J ack right about Randi from the get go. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Joshua Quinn
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I began to see the problem when I was about eight years old, and I saw some dolt on TV convincing a bunch of people he had super powers by doing a compass trick that I had learned from Mr. Wizard's Book of Science Magic.

The problem was, those people were grownups, and I thought grownups were supposed to be smart.

Try as I might, I just can't get upset about this effort on Randi's part to make grownups as smart as they're supposed to be.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Jim-Callahan
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So it is cool to expose your work Quinn?

Even if he is not exposing your gaffs he is devaluing them as entertainment.
It is all connected.

Just like music.

Mike, man you got it right.
When it comes down it all will.
Swing for the fences I say.
The boy should not pitch stones if someone has a big one to pitch back.

J ack
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Dr Spektor
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Questions (yes, this is likely a thread move to Right or Wrong):

Is there a professional body of professional magicians that accredit someone to be a magician? Reason -> what is a magician (or mentalist).

If one is a magician, is one bound to not expose as part of being a professional? It seems so ala physicians and the hippocratic oath equivalent.

If one is a magician not accredited and just calls themselves a magician, whatever that means, are they bound to non-exposure? Guess not - but we would consider them deadbeats I suppose - however - how do these people get ahold of effects in the first place? (YEAH, THERE IS AN ISSUE)

Next, is Randi still considered a professional magician? Is he bound to non-exposure? Because he once was a pro magician does that make him always a pro magician? Or is he now a professional debunker skeptic whose purpose is to expose? Why should he then care about magicians making $ of these effects? His goal is to protect the world against evil EVIL!

This whole issue seems to revolve around 1) expecting people to keep secrets where there is no way to promote it as a universal understanding to those who know magical secrets; 2) is Randi considered a magician or he is something else now; why it is sad so many people publish so much now and sell it to anyone with $... is that not a responsiblilty that we should not take on ourselves? i.e. as much as people complain about exposure - what about the people selling magic secrets in shops and the internet? Any bozo can go buy magic DVDs and books etc. and then post in on YOUTUBE etc.

The mistake here is Randi is not an entertainer professional magician anymore - he is the head of JREF and his mission is clear. What is the big surprise? I think it is nice that he is talking with Entity but I doubt he will back down. He believes what he is doing serves his purpose at this time.

Protect thy secrets. No one else will. Or: three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead (maybe).
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
entity
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Spektor: I never thought of it as the chance that Randi might back down. It's more a matter of my trying to influence the level of exposure and the context in which it is offered. I think Randi sees where I'm coming from and, in his own way, has taken some small steps to be sensitive to the magicians' point of view.

It's probably the most we can expect.

- entity
Dr Spektor
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Entity: Wasn't referring to your posts - more others who seem surprised at Randi or expect he would be acting as a entertainer professional magician. I think you did the best thing anyone could do - talk to the guy about it.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Dynamike
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Phase 1. Knock, knock. "Randy, somesone is at the door. He calls himself a/the masked magician. He says he wants to see you about messing up his big job he was offered on a tv special."

Phase 2. Siren.

Phase 3. Let us bow are heads.

Phase 4. Thank God All Mighty we are free!
Jim-Callahan
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No Mike that aint the way to do things.

You do just as Randi does.

J ack
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Dynamike
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Expose secrets?
entity
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No Dynamike. You do what you think is right.

- entity
Jim-Callahan
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Or what will turn a buck for ya at the expense of others.
Without breaking any laws.

That is what I was getting at E.

I do not think Randi does what he thinks is right all the time.
But what makes him happy or pleases him.

J ack

H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
entity
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You're entitled to your opinion on such things, Jim.

- entity
Jim-Callahan
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Heck we all are.

Are we not?

J ack

H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Dannydoyle
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So is the problem that people say things that need exposing, or that they are exposed?

J ack/Jim makes some claims that scream to be exposed. IF he was doing it for ANY other reason than for entertainment that is.

Problem with "exposure" is that it is a slippery slope. Exposure to educate against the 3 card monte, hurts performers who do gambling demonstrations.

Exposure always screams the question to me, "who is doing the exposing and why?".

In "general" it comes to the simple answer, "For money you fool".

The "who" varies.

I am confused by Randi in this. I really am.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Corona Smith
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I think perhaps his actions betray a lack of imagination, little else, but I am not really bothered what he does, all that babel over the pond just ends up sounding like big mac and fries cooking by the time it gets over here. I hear that hardly anyone outside the western world has heard of either Randi or Geller, th***btip, exposure, believe it or not this is at least half the world (actually much more).

Corona.
entity
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Even less have heard of Annemann, Corrinda and Derren Brown, but I wouldn't want their stuff exposed either.

I agree with you in principle, though, Corona.

- entity
Dr Spektor
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Uzbeckistan?
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DJM
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Quote:
On 2007-02-09 17:34, Jim-Callahan wrote:
I do not think Randi does what he thinks is right all the time.
But what makes him happy or pleases him.

J ack
H.O.A-X



Maybe if some people didn't pretend to have paranormal powers, then there would not even be any reason to expose anything. Did you ever think of that?
Dynamike
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I heard the masked magician was banned from performing in Las Vegas. Why wasn't Randi ever banned from performing anywhere?
DJM
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In that case why don't they ban Criss Angel from stage shows and TV for exposing magic tricks? Why don't they ban Penn And Teller for exposing a few tricks of their own? Randi doesn't even perform magic anymore, from where they could ban him?

Some of the posts here are way too weird..
bitterman
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How does one get banned from playing Vegas? I didn't know they had a Master of Revels.

I'm sure if there is money in it someone/anyone would book him.

That said, The Masked Magician is probably a knotch or two below The Unknown Comic in name recognition with the general public these days, so I wouldn't be shining up the tigers and waxing the t.t. just yet.
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can.
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