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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Bitterman's playing you, Jim. And it's working.
Bitterman: I wouldn't exactly call the copying of other people's routines to sell as your own writing, a knowledge of Magic history. As a "writer" perhaps you might try coming up with your own ideas. I don't know Ian Rowland or Larry Becker personally, but I do object to your taking their work, as well as Derren Brown's, and passing it off as your own. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
E, look man I would suggest taking another couple of steps back.
I was simply stating reality as I see it. Are you telling me you never heard of Dunningers use of "Dual reality"? I said no way would purchase anything from Ian. (He appears to be a nice fellow but I just cannot get past some of the things from the past and some of his positions). However I think no one should have their stuff stolen or go uncredited if an idea started with them. Even if we have divergent ideological perspectives. I give James Randi credit for helping me construct my challenge to him. (I definitely do not care for him but I did get the idea from him. e therefore get credit for it). That being said I will not use the chair bit but it is good be it Dunningers method and Ian's routine or is it really a Bitterman original of a Dunninger classic . If it is really Ian's chair bit does he give Dunninger credit for the method? In truth the only reason I bought the manuscript was because of Patricks post. I just wanted to see what he was wound up about. Anyway as I read it I recognized the Dunninger method but not the routine. The other part of how to show the prediction reminded me of Jet Thought by JG Thompson if I remember correctly. J ack H.O.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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bitterman Inner circle 1189 Posts |
"Jet Thought by JG Thompson", now you are showing your age J ack. Didn't you know Thompson ripped that off from David Blaine when Blaine was a consultant to Andy Nyman's Podcast?
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.
Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Jack/Jim: My post wasn't meant to point fingers at you at all.
It was meant to remind people, as Patrick has done, that Bitterman is selling material as his own that is not his, and that he doesn't credit it in his ebooks. Yes, I know about Dunninger's use of dual reality. I've studied Dunninger's work thoroughly, and actually knew him, slightly. Re: Ian Rowland... It may interest you to know that I agree with your position. But his part of the routine, the notebook revelation, is copied in Bitterman's routine. While Thompson had a similar idea, the handling in Bitterman's ebook is straight from Rowland's lecture notes. Without credit. Similarly, the material copied from Derren Brown and Larry Becker are not credited. Bitterman tries to pass the ideas off as his own. I think that's wrong, and that people should be reminded of the copying. Bitterman tries to deflect the issue with what he thinks of as humour, but I'm hoping that some people will see him for what he is and that they won't buy his purloined material. I'm told that he actually does have some original thoughts in some of his other works, so I apologize for suggesting that he is completely without talent. It appears that he only resorts to copying without credit sometimes. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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421M.D.B.421 New user 24 Posts |
ENTITY. $2 is not selling material. That is called BALANCING income with outgoings. Have you considered the notion that he didn't really care about the money when he decided to release the book? and all he wanted to do was give his REMIXED version of other peoples principles to you as A GIFT!
Furthermore. Does Derren Brown, Luke Jermay, Marc Spellman, Kenton Knepper (the list goes on...) REALLY CREDIT DUNNINGER FOR THE DUAL REALITY PRINCIPLE? |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
The dual reality principle is not what is in contention, if you'll read Patrick Redford's posts, and mine.
Remix with credit to the originators is fine. Remix pretending to be original is not. Whether it's for $2.00 or $200. Also should mention that the dual reality principle pre-dates Dunninger. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Patrick Redford Inner circle Michigan 1751 Posts |
Just to jump in, the buzz right now (in the marketing world at least) is about selling information for $7.00 and how much money you can rake in. Selling things for less will actually increase sales than selling something for more. You can read more about that at my website if you'd like, for $7.00 of course, or simply do a google search and find the information elsewhere (most likely for also $7.00).
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Although not the creator, the concept, as we know it today was defined in 1886 by the brilliant Dr. Henry Jekyll.
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Hyde & Sneak a brilliant concept.
J ack H.O.a-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
I thought it was Louie Stevenson....
Also Jekyl & Hyde, as we know, was based on a roaring alcohol dependent physician Jekyl - I kill - I kill myself - was a cool word play - as was Hyde which of course was the thing lurking within the self-destructive doc. 7 is a mystic number - good price. Although $6.99 might be even better (if you flip the 99 upside down - we bizarrists would buy as well)
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
I remember when I read about a circle and a triangle in a book by a popular fake mentalist. I paid quite a bit for the book. later, I found the same stuff in a book that was written before I was born.... for $1.95.
Where was Bitterman when I needed him!!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
I suspect he was a real mentalist. I'll guess that you probably meant to call him a fake psychic. Did that person pretend to have invented the circle/triangle force? Did the author of the older book? If you'll tell us the names of the books, we can look it up to see.
By the way, is it all right if I put out your email effect under my name, then Slim? I'll sell it for $2.00. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Is that what Bitterman is doing?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Taking other people's ideas and selling them under his own name, without credit?
So it seems. Didn't you read this thread? - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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bitterman Inner circle 1189 Posts |
I beg to differ, I gave Dunninger all the credit he was due, twice as a matter of fact. In the new ebook, I Love You Period, I thank Ian Rowland for taking time from inventing the wheel and writing the bible to invent this effect, just to keep you happy entity
What is this I Love You Period, you ask? Well: THE EFFECT: A spectator randomly thinks of any punctuation mark in the English language and with the help of a simple matrix featuring four disarming and loveable video game characters, the mentalist is able to correctly name the merely thought of punctuation. No pumping, no impression pads, no peeking. You know, every garden variety mentalist will have you think of a word and then they will tell you what the word is you’re thinking of. They use all kinds of methods to make sure you have a random word. Some will have you look in a book. Some will have you pick a card. Some will ask you to write the word down so it makes a clear impression in your mind. That’s all well and good for them, but haven’t you ever wanted to try something just a little harder. Forget words. Try going for punctuation marks. That’s right, punctuation. Periods, commas, apostrophe. You can think of any punctuation mark in the English language, because I only know English, and with the help of a couple of my dear friends, you can read your friend’s mind. Plus the bar bet What Are The Odds that you can even do over the phone or on the radio! (Radio show not included)
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.
Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can. |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18012 Posts |
Well Mr. E....I read the thread and also most of Bittermans more inexpensive books. Did you?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Be that as it may be is the effect really from Ian's manuscript?
I have to ask, and it would be swank to get the answer. From anyone interested. J ack H.o.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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bitterman Inner circle 1189 Posts |
I think what has Entity's knickers in knot is the indexing, which I learned from (and credit to in the ebook) Pat Page. Page, by the way, walked with the king and you'd all be well served to look up his greatly over-looked stuff. His son, a college friend of mine, is on Broadway right now (or was last time I looked) as the title character in The Grinch... Although, he might be Ian's son. Entity, I'm sure, will let us know.
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.
Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can. |
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entity Inner circle Canada 5060 Posts |
Patrick Redford made it very clear in an early post in this thread:
"Your Invisible Deck routine (from your chair test manuscript) is practically identical to Derren Brown's "Invisible Deal." (Pure Effect/Devils Picture Book) Your Chair Test uses the modest operandi (note from entity: should read Modus Operandi. Sorry PR!) of Ian Rowland's "Elephant from Matchbox" (Alpha Lecture Notes) (another note from entity: the purloined idea was Rowland's method with the notebook); The Trick That Blew The Back of Kennedy's Head Off is an exact replica of a Larry Becker effect called, "Kliptomania" (Stunners Plus.) The last item in particular is almost word for word from Stunner Plus. Pat Page is a very knowledgeable man, I'd agree. - entity
email: tomebaxter@icloud.com
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teejay Inner circle Liverpool, UK 1831 Posts |
Hi Bitterman
I have tried to order your stuff using Paypal How can you make using Paypal so difficult? You want my address and phone number for an ebook by Paypal? I did this and it still doesn't work Is this some sort of test or joke? lol What do you suggest? TJ |
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