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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Today On Oprah... John Edward & Allison DuBois (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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DJM
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Jim, I wasn't talking about you this time.
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The Great Tip O'Neil had a word for this, Duendie. If you don't get it you never will.l
If you are not cheating, you are only cheating yourself.

Dutchco is about to put out some new Ebook: DUTCHCO. Get 'em while you can.
Harry H
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South Park had a good name for "someone" also:douche!
Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2007-02-16 21:53, DJM wrote:
John Edward isn't even that amazing in cold reading. His big adventage is that he talks so fast that people don't have the chance to say when he's wrong. And even when they do say that he's wrong, he tells them that they are the ones who are wrong, and to check the info when they get back home.

I've learned from John that there are bad people in this world.


Is the "wrong/right" paradigm appropriate? If it is, where does that leave science? Is science "wrong" or "right"? What leads you to believe John is a bad person? Are you "wrong" or "right" to say so?

The worst that can be said of him is that he does something you don't like for a lot of money. Kind of like most magicians and what I don't like, except for the money.

And kind of like Randi and what I don't like, with the money.

/Bamba
Malchat
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 07:58, Bambaladam wrote:
Is the "wrong/right" paradigm appropriate?


I find the "scumball" paradigm more appropriate for Edwards.

Those who have no respect for the dead deserve none from the living.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
DJM
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 07:58, Bambaladam wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-16 21:53, DJM wrote:
John Edward isn't even that amazing in cold reading. His big adventage is that he talks so fast that people don't have the chance to say when he's wrong. And even when they do say that he's wrong, he tells them that they are the ones who are wrong, and to check the info when they get back home.

I've learned from John that there are bad people in this world.


Is the "wrong/right" paradigm appropriate? If it is, where does that leave science? Is science "wrong" or "right"? What leads you to believe John is a bad person? Are you "wrong" or "right" to say so?

The worst that can be said of him is that he does something you don't like for a lot of money. Kind of like most magicians and what I don't like, except for the money.

And kind of like Randi and what I don't like, with the money.

/Bamba


Something that I don't like? The man is exploiting and lying to people who have just lost their loved ones. He gives them false memories and make them think things that have never happened and would not happen. Do you like people who lie to those who are in pain?

Do you know what Mr. Edward wanted to do a special show with the families of the 9/11 victims, and disrespect those who died in vain? And how about making millions of dollars at the expense of dead people?

Is it really something that you like to see, bamba?
Jim-Callahan
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Are you guys this blind that you cannot learn from something you do not like?

Can you not see the value?

-Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
DJM
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My eyesight is very good so far, thanks for asking.

BTW, some people here would probably tell you that it's way out of line to make fun of blind people, but don't take it personaly.
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For those who care to pursue:

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/sample01/weird.htm

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 08:37, DJM wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-17 07:58, Bambaladam wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-02-16 21:53, DJM wrote:
John Edward isn't even that amazing in cold reading. His big adventage is that he talks so fast that people don't have the chance to say when he's wrong. And even when they do say that he's wrong, he tells them that they are the ones who are wrong, and to check the info when they get back home.

I've learned from John that there are bad people in this world.


Is the "wrong/right" paradigm appropriate? If it is, where does that leave science? Is science "wrong" or "right"? What leads you to believe John is a bad person? Are you "wrong" or "right" to say so?

The worst that can be said of him is that he does something you don't like for a lot of money. Kind of like most magicians and what I don't like, except for the money.

And kind of like Randi and what I don't like, with the money.

/Bamba


Something that I don't like? The man is exploiting and lying to people who have just lost their loved ones. He gives them false memories and make them think things that have never happened and would not happen. Do you like people who lie to those who are in pain?

Do you know what Mr. Edward wanted to do a special show with the families of the 9/11 victims, and disrespect those who died in vain? And how about making millions of dollars at the expense of dead people?

Is it really something that you like to see, bamba?


Do you feel religious funeral rites disrespect the dead? Do you feel you are an authority on the ways others should deal with their losses? Do you feel Edward would have been even worthy of mention on the long list of people who have exploited 911 had he made said show?

I am not necessarily enamoured with his behaviour at all. In fact I couldn't care less what he did or didn't do. He has nothing to do with the realities of my life. But the tendency here is to make things very black and white and to nurture some sense of being on "the right side" against "crooks" who "scam" people.

I would love to hear about your certain knowledge of the afterlife and how it should be represented by people others go to for help. As you are so certain in your judgements, you must be certain in your knowledge of things I couldn't even pretend to know about.

I would also very seriously like to hear your explanation of the difference between his behaviour and that of any organised religion. Or world-view at all.

/Bamba
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I don't know, but you've gotta admire Oprah herself for what she's done.
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DJM
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Quote:
Do you feel religious funeral rites disrespect the dead? Do you feel you are an authority on the ways others should deal with their losses? Do you feel Edward would have been even worthy of mention on the long list of people who have exploited 911 had he made said show?

I am not necessarily enamoured with his behaviour at all. In fact I couldn't care less what he did or didn't do. He has nothing to do with the realities of my life. But the tendency here is to make things very black and white and to nurture some sense of being on "the right side" against "crooks" who "scam" people.

I would love to hear about your certain knowledge of the afterlife and how it should be represented by people others go to for help. As you are so certain in your judgements, you must be certain in your knowledge of things I couldn't even pretend to know about.

I would also very seriously like to hear your explanation of the difference between his behaviour and that of any organised religion. Or world-view at all.

/Bamba



I'm not a huge expert in organized religions, but I'm not aware of any of the people involved claiming that they can communicate with the dead and see what's on the other side. Those who do claim that are frauds just like Mr. Edward, like in the case of Peter "Rip"off.

I can't believe how you don't see anything wrong with those kind of people. Peter for example kept telling those in his church that God was speaking directly to him, and he made them throw away their medicine so he would be able to "heal" them. In case you don't know, he didn't have any healing powers and God was actually his wife, telling him all the info he needed to know. Don't you see anything bad in that stuff, even dangerous?

Psychics like Edward are not much different in the sense that they lie to grieving families. Not less than that. They take their precious memories and make it become fiction. Not to mention that most of them charge a fortune for that, give false medical advices, and even try to "find" missing people.

Peopie who are in pain need someone to comfort them, not to lie. They could talk to their friends, to family members, to a professional. They shouldn't go to some fraud who just cares about getting money from them.

You think those who believe John is for real and got a "reading" from him would be very happy to know that he was just making things up? How would that make them feel better? People who go see psychics are looking for real things, not a make believe. If they found out that it's all just a big lie, it would crash them.

Psychics are no more than the Wizard of Oz. They are pretending to be some kind of god, but at the end of the day they just hide behind the curtain while lying to people. The characters in the story were very disappointed to find that they believed so much in nothing. And look what happened at the end, they went to see Sylvia Browne... Sorry, I mean the wicked witch from the west, which caused even more problems.

A big mess!
Malchat
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 08:51, Jim-Callahan wrote:
Are you guys this blind that you cannot learn from something you do not like?

Can you not see the value?


No and yes. But I don't compromise my values for the sake of knowledge.

Sometimes you just have to draw the line.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Jim-Callahan
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Oh c'mon we are talking tools.

Just because one guy might use a hammer and saw to build a cross to crucify it does not make the tools evil.

Another might pick them up and build a church.

I am willing to pick them up no matter who worked with them last and create art.

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Malchat
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I thought we were talking about the carpenter and not his tools. Fortunately for me, he's not the sole source of knowledge about how to use them.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 10:06, DJM wrote:
I'm not a huge expert in organized religions, but I'm not aware of any of the people involved claiming that they can communicate with the dead and see what's on the other side. Those who do claim that are frauds just like Mr. Edward, like in the case of Peter "Rip"off.


I would say very few religious thought systems refrain from laying claim to special knowledge of such metaphysical truths. It puzzles me how you could think otherwise. Mention one?

Quote:
I can't believe how you don't see anything wrong with those kind of people. Peter for example kept telling those in his church that God was speaking directly to him, and he made them throw away their medicine so he would be able to "heal" them. In case you don't know, he didn't have any healing powers and God was actually his wife, telling him all the info he needed to know. Don't you see anything bad in that stuff, even dangerous?


I am sure there is bad and dangerous in such circumstances. What I am not certain of, however, is why we should ignore it in some contexts, and not in others. I am also not certain what right I have to "protect" others from their choices in life. I would be very busy keeping people out of stuff if I did. What constitutes fraud is hard to say. From my point of view, I could consider anyone claiming to be certain about anything beyong the cartesian cogito fraudulent. Again, I would be far too busy exposing fraud. There are far worse people out there. Randi is, at best, diverting your attention from the real crooks.

Quote:
Psychics like Edward are not much different in the sense that they lie to grieving families. Not less than that. They take their precious memories and make it become fiction. Not to mention that most of them charge a fortune for that, give false medical advices, and even try to "find" missing people.

This is exactly the same thoughts I was responding to in my last post, with demands for explanations. I can't see that you offered any.

Quote:
Peopie who are in pain need someone to comfort them, not to lie. They could talk to their friends, to family members, to a professional. They shouldn't go to some fraud who just cares about getting money from them.


What about the cases where the only comfort lies in lies? How can you say Edward is not a professional? How much money do you make from comforting the bereaved? What makes you an authority on how the bereaved should go about finding comfort? Is it ok to talk to a priest, but not Edward or me? If so, why?

Quote:
You think those who believe John is for real and got a "reading" from him would be very happy to know that he was just making things up? How would that make them feel better? People who go see psychics are looking for real things, not a make believe. If they found out that it's all just a big lie, it would crash them.


What is a big lie? What is "made up"? If I say to you that I hear voices, and the voices are those of the dead, and I fully believe it, am I lying?

Quote:
Psychics are no more than the Wizard of Oz. They are pretending to be some kind of god, but at the end of the day they just hide behind the curtain while lying to people. The characters in the story were very disappointed to find that they believed so much in nothing. And look what happened at the end, they went to see Sylvia Browne... Sorry, I mean the wicked witch from the west, which caused even more problems.


Don't you think if Sylvia Browne caused people problems she would be less popular? And if you recall, the Wizard (the "fraud") DID end up helping all of the heroes of the story. Your analogy serves you poorly.

/Bamba
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Learning from the carpenter is in some cases is just as important as the tools he uses.

Especially if one desires not to be seen as a carpenter.
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
DJM
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Quote:
And if you recall, the Wizard (the "fraud") DID end up helping all of the heroes of the story. Your analogy serves you poorly..



The Wizard ended up helping them, but it took a very long time and was mostly by luck. Don't forget that he asked them to risk their lives by killing the Witch, something that had nothing to do with the powers he was claiming to have. Going west almost got them killed. So I think my analogy was pretty good, at least in showing what a big mess lies like that could cause in people's lives.

Quote:
What about the cases where the only comfort lies in lies? How can you say Edward is not a professional? How much money do you make from comforting the bereaved? What makes you an authority on how the bereaved should go about finding comfort? Is it ok to talk to a priest, but not Edward or me? If so, why?


Lying doesn't give comfort, it just causes more pain. When a peprson finds that a person who was helping him was lying, then it just causes anger. You can't live on lies forever. There's always the chance that the truth would come out.

Edward might be a professional, but it's a profession that is 100% lying. He knows that, and we know that. And that's something I'm against of. People should get comfort from honest people who really care about them, not from those who just want to exploit them. And that goes for everything in life, not just psychics.

Priests and other religous people believe in what they do, so they are being honest about it. Edward doesn't believe in what he does, he belives in cold reading and made up stories.
entity
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On 2007-02-17 10:29, Bambaladam wrote:

"What is a big lie? What is "made up"? If I say to you that I hear voices, and the voices are those of the dead, and I fully believe it, am I lying?"

You might be. Or you may be delusional. There are ways to test to find out if what your are saying is true.

I'd suggest that if you are lurking and/or posting on this forum, there is a good chance that what you do is not genuinely psychic.

- entity
Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 10:56, DJM wrote:
Quote:
And if you recall, the Wizard (the "fraud") DID end up helping all of the heroes of the story. Your analogy serves you poorly..



The Wizard ended up helping them, but it took a very long time and was mostly by luck. Don't forget that he asked them to risk their lives by killing the Witch, something that had nothing to do with the powers he was claiming to have. Going west almost got them killed. So I think my analogy was pretty good, at least in showing what a big mess lies like that could cause in people's lives.

Quote:
What about the cases where the only comfort lies in lies? How can you say Edward is not a professional? How much money do you make from comforting the bereaved? What makes you an authority on how the bereaved should go about finding comfort? Is it ok to talk to a priest, but not Edward or me? If so, why?


Lying doesn't give comfort, it just causes more pain. When a peprson finds that a person who was helping him was lying, then it just causes anger. You can't live on lies forever. There's always the chance that the truth would come out.

Edward might be a professional, but it's a profession that is 100% lying. He knows that, and we know that. And that's something I'm against of. People should get comfort from honest people who really care about them, not from those who just want to exploit them. And that goes for everything in life, not just psychics.

Priests and other religous people believe in what they do, so they are being honest about it. Edward doesn't believe in what he does, he belives in cold reading and made up stories.


It seems to me you believe you have access to Edward's thoughts. Are you psychic?

/Bamba
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