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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Today On Oprah... John Edward & Allison DuBois (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bambaladam
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 11:02, entity wrote:
On 2007-02-17 10:29, Bambaladam wrote:

"What is a big lie? What is "made up"? If I say to you that I hear voices, and the voices are those of the dead, and I fully believe it, am I lying?"

You might be. Or you may be delusional. There are ways to test to find out if what your are saying is true.

I'd suggest that if you are lurking and/or posting on this forum, there is a good chance that what you do is not genuinely psychic.

- entity


To my knowledge there is no way to test whether or not the voices someone hears are the voices of the dead or not.

And not the "if" in my post. I said nothing of my own claims. It is a hypothetical argument.

/Bamba
Jim Poor
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 11:02, entity wrote:
On 2007-02-17 10:29, Bambaladam wrote:

I'd suggest that if you are lurking and/or posting on this forum, there is a good chance that what you do is not genuinely psychic.

- entity


I knew you'd say that! Ha, couldn't resist.

I'm sure there are real psychics out there, just never met one that has me convinced yet.

Best,
Jim
DJM
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Quote:

It seems to me you believe you have access to Edward's thoughts. Are you psychic?

/Bamba


One second, you are trying to say that there's a chance that Edward is the real thing? Or maybe that he really thinks he has powers?

A person like him can't do his performances without being an expert about cold readings. He asks all the classic questions and evrything else that can be found in cold readings books. Not to mention that he has been caught a few times using hot readings before the shows starts.

I have no idea what your post was supposed to mean.
R.S.
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To all the defenders of the Jonathan Edwards and Sylvia Brownes of the world, would YOU pay good money for their services? Would YOU derive comfort from a reading regarding one of YOUR lost loved ones? If so, that's fine - it's your decision.

Bambaladam did make a good point - to what extent do any of us "police" other's choices? It is a pyschological fact that people tend to seek out evidence in support of their views and ignore the rest. When the masses have had enough of Edwards and Browne, they will fade away. But as long as there are people for whom conventional wisdom is not enough, the Edwards and Brownes will fill their needs.

It's almost difficult to side with the grieveing (in cases where they have been ripped off) when it was their own ignorance that led them there in the first place. This in no way exonerates those who are willing to exploit them, but the blame is shared. If you tell a child (or an adult) that the stove is hot and they proceed to burn their hand, do you blame the stove? We are all responsible for our own actions. As someone watching on the sidelines, I have no idea why otherwise rational people would so readily ascribe to such fantastic notions as the deceased using Sylvia Browne as a conduit to send a message to their loved ones (and PAYING for said message, hint, hint).

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Josh Zandman
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Nice post Ron
Philemon Vanderbeck
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People will always go to mediums to talk to their departed loved ones.

Many believe the modern spiritualism movement began with the Fox sisters.

However, historically, mediumship has existed long before that.

Check out the Witch of Endor episode in the Old Testament.

I would wager that shamans have been doing similar while we were still living in caves...
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
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Malchat
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I maintain that John Edward is a scumball because has no tact, respect, and sensitivity for either the living or the dead.

This does not mean that all psychics and scumballs. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I am unwilling to believe in the paranormal. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I'm disrespecting my lessons learned from meeting with real-life psychics. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I am unaware of the history of our art. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I am blind to the effect he has on his audiece. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I am unaware of moral relativism or ethical paradoxes. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

This does not mean that I want all of you to share my opinon. Just that I happen to think John Edward is a scumball.

If after all this you are still personally or morally offended by my position (and you are not John Edward): sorry.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Jim-Callahan
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So you don't care for John Edward?

I may be misstaken but that is what I get from your post.

-Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Millard123
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I maintain that John Edward is wonderful because he has tact, respect, and sensitivity for both the living and the dead.

This does not mean that all psychics are wonderful. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I am willing to believe in the paranormal. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I respect lessons learned from meeting with real-life mentalists. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I am aware of the history of our art. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I see the effect he has on his audience. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I am aware of moral relativism or ethical paradoxes. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

This does not mean that I want all of you to disagree with my opinion. Just that I happen to think John Edward is wonderful.

If after all this you are still personally or morally happy with my position (or you are John Edward): then peace is with you.
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tmoca
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Just watched this show off my DVR.

As much as I despise John Edward. And no matter how much of a hack I think he is, I have to say the guy is a freakin' genius. He knows his stuff and pulls the wool over so many peoples eyes.

Geller and Edward are the real legends in my book.

Here is a guy making a load of cash, doing what many of us here strive and most often fail to do. He just goes on the premise that he is legit.

Goes to prove the statement that "people are sheep"

My only question is did Sylvia Brown turn down Oprah's invitation or was she too busy making waffles?
R.S.
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Malchat - You've just set the record for most uses of the word "scumball" in a post!

Anyway, some may agree or disagree with your view of John Edwards, but remember - he has attained his status ONLY BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO EMBRACE HIM, BELIEVE IN HIM, AND SUPPORT HIM! Same with Sylvia Browne. Should we rush to the defense of those who choose to ignore what many consider to be sound, rational, scientific reasoning?

As distasteful as I find the practices of Edwards and Browne, I am in no rush to save those who are so willing to believe in them. One can say they deserve each other.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Millard123
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 14:23, tmoca wrote:
Just watched this show off my DVR.

As much as I despise John Edward. And no matter how much of a hack I think he is, I have to say the guy is a freakin' genius. He knows his stuff and pulls the wool over so many peoples eyes.

Geller and Edward are the real legends in my book.

Here is a guy making a load of cash, doing what many of us here strive and most often fail to do. He just goes on the premise that he is legit.

Goes to prove the statement that "people are sheep"

My only question is did Sylvia Brown turn down Oprah's invitation or was she too busy making waffles?

Even more reasons for why I maintain that John is wonderful!

Sylvia is not as pretty as Allison and that is why she did not get on the show.
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Tony Iacoviello
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I'm prettier than Sylvia, and I didn't even get a phone call. Smile
Malchat
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 14:16, Jim-Callahan wrote:
So you don't care for John Edward?

I may be misstaken but that is what I get from your post.


I may be mistaken, but I think Millard thinks he's okay. Smile
“You are what you pretend to be.”
Tony Iacoviello
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Millard think's Im OK too.

He's just a nice guy who practices seeing the good in people and not focusing on the negative. At least that's my opinion. Smile
Millard123
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Quote:
On 2007-02-17 14:38, Tony Iacoviello wrote:
I'm prettier than Sylvia, and I didn't even get a phone call. Smile

Yes, Tony, you are prettier than Sylvia; even I am prettier than Sylvia!

And you are more than OK in my book -- you are even more wonderful than John Edward!

Millard
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Tony Iacoviello
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Millard:

Thank you. Smile

I don't know what to say.

Tony
R. Dunn
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Okay here's my take on Mr. Edwards

Firstly him pretending to talk to passed over loved ones is pretty low. However if you look at the effect it has on the person being read 99% of the time its positive. I mean one woman had a life long fight with her mom and never got the chance to tell her that she loves her mom. This was tearing the woman's life apart as she had this overbearing guilt. John told/lied to her that her mom is saying that she knows that her daughter loves her and never doubted it even during their darkest moments. It was like the clouds opened up and sun shone on the daughter for the first time since her mothers passing. It was good from a underhanded deed.

Now, am I saying I'm all for John Edwards? No. I'm saying that within the "evil" he does there is good for the living. Even though he isn't speaking to the dead in some cases using his cold reading he is speaking for the dead (maybe lying for them Smile ) but he makes a positive difference in the life of the person being read.

So John Edwards is lying to people however that lies in most cases brings positive changes.

And one last time, I ont advocate what John is doing , I'm just stating an observation.
DJM
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Dunn, I've heard many stories of people who used to believe in psychics and done readings with them, but later on found that they were just being fooled by a fraud... now with all the info on the internet it's not that hard for people to change their mind once they see all the facts presented to them.

So there's a pretty good chance that woman will eventually learn about cold reading and then realise that maybe Edward is just some regular human who lied to her about her mom, and that none of the things he told her was true..

That's usually the problem with lies.. eventually people could find that's exactly what they are. And then it could cause much more damage than good.

I'm not trying to compare the two things, but you can say the same thing about drugs... only helpful for a short while, before it starts becoming harmful.
Chris H
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Mr. Dunn,

With all due respect, you could not possibly be more wrong. People like John Edward do not assist the grieving process. They delay it. If someone has a reading from a "scumball" (a term I wholeheartedly agree with) like Edward, this can, and often does, cause a chain reaction that sends that person off seeking another reading, and another, and another. It can become an obsession, which can destroy the lives of the people still living. There is nothing good about what John Edward does.

-- Topher
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