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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Kolossal Killer! (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Sealegs
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The UK, Portsmouth
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Quote:
On 2009-04-24 11:44, Lemniscate wrote:
Quick question for everybody about this kind of thought: do you love/hate tricks based on method or plot? Neal, for example, is plot. I happen to think this is the best way to judge something (you can find a million methods but a good plot is gold). However, when reading Neal's post, I realized that he could have missed out on something good because he was so focused on plot that he ignored the fact the same method can be used for other plots (such as Archer's).

What thinkest thou?

Lem


Lem it's an interesting question.

Actually it wasn't the plot that I didn't like about the effect. My dislike for it was that 2 out of 3 times the denuemont of the effect leads to a 'wooly' climax that makes part of the method glaringly obvious. Not the entire method but the part of it and to my mind enough of it to hurt the effect. It immediately sends the spectator down a path of discovering the method. I think that's a bad thing to have built into an effect. I'm sure some will say I'm thinking like a performer and not a spectator. Maybe they're right... but then again maybe they're not. Obviously I think they're not.

John's presentational structure means that the final (alternative) reveal is no longer post hoc... it's built into the story. I don't know what the impetus was for John coming up with this brilliant presentational approach but I wouldn't be surprised if it was to negate the very reservations that I have about this effect.

John's presentation takes the effect's big weakness, puts it centre stage and actually builds the effect around it. Brillant thinking. Suddenly the effect makes sense and has a stunning spot on conclusion every performance, as opposed to 1 out of 3 times.

Not sure that I've answered your question Lem!

Neal
Neal Austin

"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
konjurer
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Iowa
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Sealegs, I guess you're referring to the situation where the card is not quite the card the spectator thought of. There are a lot of ways to lead the specator away from reverse engineering the method in their head.

I start with some story about studying precognition and prophesy. I tell the spectator that I placed a "prediction" in my wallet every morning to see if I can accurate predict an event at some point during the day. Through an elaborate patter I ask them to envision a playing card.

I reminder the spec that I placed a "prediction" in my wallet. I NEVER say I placed a "card" in my wallet. If they hit the 1 out of 3 ending, I pull out the card and they are amazed. If I'm off, there still pretty impressed because I'm very close. Then I remind them that I placed a "prediction" in my wallet. Then I reveal the prediction and I usually get a jawdropping response.

With subtle wording and a good storyline the trick becomes unbelievable. That deliberate and measured wording is the strength of a lot Kenton's material.
===========================================
Clever stuff goes here!
MJ Marrs
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Los Angeles
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I've always liked it when the card is right on. But there's a lot to be said about having a little pause between revealing the card that's only off by one before showing the kicker ending.

Having a card that's only off by one is actually a pretty good trick in and of itself and usually gets a reaction. Milking this before going in for the "kill" is kinda cool.
Sealegs
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Konjurer,
I appreciate the points you make, they are certainly valid and noteworthy and obviously there are many that will agree with you.

However they don't change my opinion of what I see as the weakness of this effect. I can still recall what I thought of this effect when I 1st saw it performed. My view is still, that it is, to use a good old English expression, Pants. (As in old, grey, threadbare, unattractive, underware having an indistnct, yellowish map of what looks like Indonesia adorning the front)

Seeing John's presentation though made me want to own it.(The trick not the pants)

Neal.
Neal Austin

"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
mkarav
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Westwood, NJ
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Is there a difference between the Killer Kolossal and Heirloom effects and if so what? Which is better? I seen the video of Heirloom and it seems impressive but from all that I read here its not that simple?!
Bertrand Thornley
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Many professionals-more experienced than myself-- have pointed out it can be much stronger when its off. Indeed,that has been my experience. I'm sure it depends on the spectator though.
"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." Tom Robbins

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MJ Marrs
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I did a show on Saturday where both the "off by one" and the right on versions occured. It's hard to say exactly which one is stronger because the reactions of both were very strong. There is an interesting feeling to the "off" version, though, so I'd definitely say that not hitting exactly does not detract from the effect in the least.
Kjellstrom
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Sweden, Scandinavia, Europe
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Most weak results in magic is a result from a weak performer.
mhsam
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I have carried KK with me since Jeff McBride showed me in 1994. I bought it from Larry Becker and use the original Roy Roth wallet which I love. How does the newer "Killer Wallet" compare?
Charlie Justice
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Quote:
On 2009-06-06 00:17, Bertrand Thornley wrote:
Many professionals-more experienced than myself-- have pointed out it can be much stronger when its off. Indeed,that has been my experience. I'm sure it depends on the spectator though.

It has always been my experience that being 'off' plays much stronger. I therefore ensure that it is always 'off' even though the spectator has a completely free choice with one wallet & one card FASDIU. It's simply the best result...IMHO.

peacem charlie
Tony Curtis
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Quote:
On 2009-06-28 21:51, mhsam wrote:
I have carried KK with me since Jeff McBride showed me in 1994. I bought it from Larry Becker and use the original Roy Roth wallet which I love. How does the newer "Killer Wallet" compare?

The new Killer Wallet has a buit in pocket index system so making it very easy to remove the correct prediction card.

Tony Curtis

http://www.tonycurtismagic.com
MaxfieldsMagic
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I've been carrying Mr. Curtis's new wallet as my regular wallet for months now, so it looks appropriately beat up, softened and "normal." It's set up perfectly for KK, so there's no hesitation when you go for the card, and the wallet is about as thin as it could be. It's a great wallet, besides; it's made with high quality leather and solidly stitched. As a bonus, the credit card pockets (ungimmicked), keep your credit cards from touching each other, providing easy access and lessening wear and demagnetization issues.

I was a little concerned after it first started to break in, because it looked like you could see some outlining of the indexes in the exterior leather. However, you really had to know what you were looking for to even notice it, and the issue resolved itself as the leather further softened.

The spectator sees you pull the card out of the bill compartment. You can then show the compartment to be entirely empty, if you like. I usually leave a bill or two in, which I pull out 2/3 of the way when displaying the compartment. If you have the wallet, you'll know why that helps clean things up.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
EventEntertainer
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Look Ma!
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<<you'll know why that helps clean things up>>

Never had an issue with "cleaning up". Everything should be natural and normal, thus no need.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Well, there's one little thing you don't want them to notice with this wallet, and the bills help a lot.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
Tony Curtis
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For the record this is what you get in the Kolossal Killer package.
The original 16 page manuscript, Official Kolossall Killer Wallet, Killer Envelopes and specially printed poker size cards.

Tony Curtis

http://www.tonycurtismagic.com
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Does the wallet still come with a signed photo of Kenton in a Speedo for an extra revelation?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Ron Crumley
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1950 - 2012
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This is the only effect I've ever performed and six months later, repeatedly had audience members ask me to perform it again.

Get you handling smooth, and it can be your reputation maker.
MaxfieldsMagic
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Quote:
On 2010-03-26 02:56, Review King wrote:
Does the wallet still come with a signed photo of Kenton in a Speedo for an extra revelation?


At least you'd know they'd never ask you to repeat the trick.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
Tony Curtis
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Quote:
On 2010-03-24 10:24, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
I've been carrying Mr. Curtis's new wallet as my regular wallet for months now, so it looks appropriately beat up, softened and "normal." It's set up perfectly for KK, so there's no hesitation when you go for the card, and the wallet is about as thin as it could be. It's a great wallet, besides; it's made with high quality leather and solidly stitched. As a bonus, the credit card pockets (ungimmicked), keep your credit cards from touching each other, providing easy access and lessening wear and demagnetization issues.

I was a little concerned after it first started to break in, because it looked like you could see some outlining of the indexes in the exterior leather. However, you really had to know what you were looking for to even notice it, and the issue resolved itself as the leather further softened.

The spectator sees you pull the card out of the bill compartment. You can then show the compartment to be entirely empty, if you like. I usually leave a bill or two in, which I pull out 2/3 of the way when displaying the compartment. If you have the wallet, you'll know why that helps clean things up.

Thank you for your comments and I hope your KK wallet will continue to give good service.

Tony Curtis

http://www.tonycurtismagic.com
Review King
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Eternal Order
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Quote:
On 2010-03-26 23:35, MaxfieldsMagic wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-03-26 02:56, Review King wrote:
Does the wallet still come with a signed photo of Kenton in a Speedo for an extra revelation?


At least you'd know they'd never ask you to repeat the trick.


That depends. Have you ever seen Kenton in a speedo?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
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