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shakes
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I love fire effects. I don't mind them in restuarants.. However, I agree with what everyone was saying about the liability of it. We all know that you don't perform an effect that you cant totally control. I guess my question is, can you control something so unpredictable. I know myself, I've gotten flash paper that burns hotter and faster than others. I guess it really depends on how brave you are. I say go for it. There is always underlying risk in everything we do in life so why not live to the fullest.

The best to you/

LOVE PEACE AND CHICKEN GREASE....
Dirko
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I used shriek of the mutilated hundreds and hundreds of times (if not thousands)and have never had anything but positive experiences! Just my thoughts.
Review King
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In 1970, great to use fire. In 2007, it's not worth it. The world has changed and we have to change with it.
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
bsears
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Some guys seem to use fire to "get attention." Look, if you have to burn something to get people to notice you, maybe there are deeper issues. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I think this feeds into negative stereotypes that we do not need to reinforce.
patrick flanagan
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Bsears,
Burning something reinforces negative stereotypes? I'm not sure I see the connection. Had you said "dealing 3 rows of seven cards..." or using some of the tired old lines that unfortunatly have been passed down from generation to generation ("hold out your hand...no the clean one") are what reinforces negative perceptions. Treating guests as lame comical fodder are what reinforces the negativity.
Patrick
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-07-25 11:19, bsears wrote:
Some guys seem to use fire to "get attention." Look, if you have to burn something to get people to notice you, maybe there are deeper issues. I'm not trying to put anyone down, but I think this feeds into negative stereotypes that we do not need to reinforce.


What he is saying is that if you have to make fire to be impressive, you need to work on being impressive.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Justin Impossible
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Still love fire and will always use it and people talk about it!
Peace
J
Justin Impossible
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www.facebook.com/magicianjustinimpossible

A pretty assistant is the most effective form of misdirection.
Review King
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Has anyone thought of setting themselves on fire and running through the restaurant?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
patrick flanagan
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Actually, specificaly because of this thread, I retired my fire wallet last March after about 15 years of uneventful service. I just figured that after reading some of the horror stories, I've either been very judicial with its usage, or just really, really lucky. I saw no reason to push my luck. Although, I will admit that I still use flash paper(for my flower production, shriek of the mutilated, etc.). Ah, I suppose it's best to conquer one vice at a time.
Patrick
Starrpower
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Whenever I get into my car, there is a far greater chance than one-in-a-million that a little kid is gonna dash into the street and get run over by me. I that happens every day! Every time you get into a car, you really can hurt people, and hurt them badly! I don't know the exact statistics, but I'll bet people get hit by cars on a lesser ratio than 1/1,000,000. Am I selfish for continuing to drive?

Do you want to be that one in a million who runs someone down just becasue it's more convenient than riding a bicycle?

I use my fire wallet all the time in restaurant. It gets a great reaction and people remember it. It's on my posters. A recent newspaper story featured a full-color, front page photo of me doing it for a group in a restaurant.

I used to do a torn-and-restored cigarette paper that used flash paper (John Bannon?) This thread reminded me of it. I'll put it back in my show.

I'm a pretty responsible guy, both personally and socially, but I can't live my life worrying about what might happen as a result of something I do. Someone might try to duplicate a headchopper. Someone might try to eat fire. Some one might see me using a nail gun and shoot a hole throught their hand, too! Someone who's alergic to peanuts might see me spreading Skippy on my bread and do it themselves, resulting on a closed airway.

We're entertainers, and we can be expected to do a fews things out of the ordinary. I like the few fire effects I do, and I'm gonna keep on doing them. I'll also keep driving.
Lee Darrow
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Starrpower, when you drive your car, I assume that you have insurance, right?

When you use fire effects in a restaurant, in violation of local, county or state fire codes, you do NOT have insurance because liability insurance, across the board, has a clause that voids the coverage if the insured is engaged in any activity that is in violation of statute.

So, the question then becomes - using your own similie - would you drive your car on a regular basis WITHOUT insurance - and how would YOU feel if you DID hurt someone - and how much would you stand to LOSE if you DID?

THAT, my friend, is the REAL bottom line.

Welcome to Liability Insurance 101.

Please note that I am not a liability insurance agent. I do have a life insurance agent's license in Illinois, however, so I do have some basic information on this topic. Please refer to your policy for specifics on any coverage issues that you may have and, if you have specific questions, please contact your insurer for details.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
bsears
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Exactly. Well said Lee and Danny.
Review King
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Has anyone thought of setting a guest on fire in the restaurant?
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Dannydoyle
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It would get attention, and people would talk about it. Seems to be the qualifications lately.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Andy the cardician
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Quote:
On 2007-07-26 10:53, Lee Darrow wrote:
Starrpower, when you drive your car, I assume that you have insurance, right?

When you use fire effects in a restaurant, in violation of local, county or state fire codes, you do NOT have insurance because liability insurance, across the board, has a clause that voids the coverage if the insured is engaged in any activity that is in violation of statute.

So, the question then becomes - using your own similie - would you drive your car on a regular basis WITHOUT insurance - and how would YOU feel if you DID hurt someone - and how much would you stand to LOSE if you DID?

THAT, my friend, is the REAL bottom line.

Welcome to Liability Insurance 101.

Please note that I am not a liability insurance agent. I do have a life insurance agent's license in Illinois, however, so I do have some basic information on this topic. Please refer to your policy for specifics on any coverage issues that you may have and, if you have specific questions, please contact your insurer for details.

Lee Darrow, C.H.


Great point -
On top of that, if you perform for a company . . please ensure that you are inline with the companies safety standards. Especially big cooperations have special rules regarding health and safety.
Cards never lie
Review King
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Quote:
On 2007-07-27 20:20, Dannydoyle wrote:
It would get attention, and people would talk about it. Seems to be the qualifications lately.


HAHAHA, I knew you'd get it!!!
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Starrpower
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Quote:
On 2007-07-26 10:53, Lee Darrow wrote:
Starrpower, when you drive your car, I assume that you have insurance, right?


That makes absolutely no sense.

What you're saying is an irresponsible act is okay as long as you're insured? How absurd.

There were 42,642 traffic deaths in the U.S. last year. I could find no deaths due to fire wallets. Yet you claim we are being more responsible driving -- the act that killed off the equivilent of a small city in a single year -- simply because we carry car insurance?

My point is, yeah, you might be taking a risk using fire, but it's an extremely small risk. So small that related statistics do not even exist. You risk far more getting to and from the gig than you do actually performing fire magic at that gig. Yet, you still think one act is acceptable and the other is not, based on what? The fact that you carry insurance?

And, Danny, YES! It would get attention, and people would talk about it. We are, after all, entertainers. Getting attention and being discussed is a pretty strong reason for performing an effect ... especially one that people also find entertaining. They enjoy it. I'm paid to entertain people in an enjoyable fashion.
Bill Palmer
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Okay. Let me tell you about real world experiences.

1) I dropped a piece of flash paper on my carpet. It was just a bit slower burning than usual, and it burned a small hole in the carpet. Had this been in a restaurant that had a carpet on the floor, I would have gotten fired.

2) If you have an IBM or an SAM Insurance policy, and you do ANY fire tricks in your act, they don't have to pay ANY claims. They don't have to, because when you took the policy out, you said you didn't us fire.

There are a lot of wonderful fire effects out there, folks. But you have to remember that if you set something on fire with something you thought you could control, you will feel like an A number 1 Jackass. And if someone dies, you will be up that famous creek we all have heard about.

Does anyone remember the thread about the guy who nearly got arrested when he did his fire wallet trick at the bank teller's. He didn't have a clue as to why the security people got upset.
"The Swatter"

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Vayron
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A friend of mine use flash paper for produce sponge balls. But 2 month ago the flash paper fell on a 250$ silk shirt ... Fortunatly for him the company paid the shirt. Now when he produce his sponge balls he's 1 step behind the table ...
DylanTolly
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Quote:
On 2007-08-03 06:23, Vayron wrote:
A friend of mine use flash paper for produce sponge balls. But 2 month ago the flash paper fell on a 250$ silk shirt ... Fortunatly for him the company paid the shirt. Now when he produce his sponge balls he's 1 step behind the table ...


Nice to see he learned from his mistake... not
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