The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Ring Membership must be IBM member? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
sirsephy
View Profile
New user
17 Posts

Profile of sirsephy
Hello have a question, I'm the president of the local ring #79. We are in the process of overhauling our membership procedures. We have one magician who will show up now and then but has never joined the IBM. He is a nice enough person and has aided in our meetings he just doesn't want to join the IBM. Currently our bylaws state you have to be a member of IBM in order to be a member of the ring. I'm not sure if this is just our by laws or IBM's rules. I was wonder if other rings have a special membership, so people like this gentleman can join the ring but not have to join the IBM? This new membership would not be able to be an officer but would be able to pay the rings dues and contribute in any other way. So is this sanctioned by IBM? Or do all our members have to be members of IBM?
Thanks,
Dick
"You offered hope to the weary heart
In charity's sacred name;
You brightened the world with a blessed art
That counts up here the same." Alexander Herrmann
blink_inc
View Profile
Loyal user
Hamilton
278 Posts

Profile of blink_inc
My personal view....

It's only $55 a year!
No dues paid no enterance no special cases.

Have these bylaws not been in place for years? They are there for a reason.

Will//
I am a Sankey addict....please, help me!

My name is Will, my company is Blink, an experience in transposition.
sirsephy
View Profile
New user
17 Posts

Profile of sirsephy
I think I found the answer to my own question. On the international site they have an example of the by-laws and where things can be different they are marked in italics. It definately states all members will be a member of the IBM in good standings. This is not in italics so I assume that is that. We will have to ask anybody who doesn't want to join international that they may not attend our meetings.
"You offered hope to the weary heart
In charity's sacred name;
You brightened the world with a blessed art
That counts up here the same." Alexander Herrmann
Dave V
View Profile
Inner circle
Las Vegas, NV
4825 Posts

Profile of Dave V
That's pretty much the case. If they don't want to join the organization, they can't join any of their sub-chapters either.

That doesn't mean they can't attend meetings as "guests" but they would have no voting rights, they're excluded from whatever business meetings you may have, can't participate in any "Ring only" functions, and they usually will be asked to pay a higher "non-member" price for lectures and other open activities.

If they truly want to participate, you can work it out so it's cheaper to join than to pay higher prices for everything they want to do separately.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
It's true, them's the rules. We tell all newcomers that they have to join, and endorse their applications.

Look through issues of The Linking Ring since fall 2005 and see all the new members from Maine. We have a couple of people who have dropped by once or twice. We try to nudge them in the direction of joining the I.B.M., if they admit that they are not I.B.M. members. The problem is that we can't find out for sure. The International Office, which is just wrong on this, refuses to release a list of I.B.M. members in Maine to us unless the TVP OKs it. I have spammed him till my fingers bleed, but he just won't send an email to the International Office giving them "permission" to release the names.

We have built a great Ring in the middle of nowhere in just one year. Our website rocks. We want to submit our record to the International Office in 2008 to be evaluated for a Ring Quality Award. One of the things that they want to know is whether our members are members of the I.B.M. How the heck can we do this if they won't release the ****ing names to us? This is just wrong!

Yeah, yeah, I know. Try to work with the TVP. He has been TVP for eight years, and never did anything to form a Ring here. We do understand the nomination process, however. That's the other solution.

The I.B.M. does a lot of great stuff. The Linking Ring is a treasure. But sometimes, they get a little hung up on hierarchy, as they have in this case.

See for yourself:

http://www.ibmring362.org

Look through our Archive to see Ring Reports with photos.

Yours,

Paul
sirsephy
View Profile
New user
17 Posts

Profile of sirsephy
Thanks for all the responses. I have a question Paul why don't you just ask the people themselves? They have to have cards, and numbers. How do you handle guests? Do you let them come indefinitely just they have no voting rights or do you say sign up or leave, not in those exact worda of course.

Thanks again of all the information.

Best Regards,
Dick
"You offered hope to the weary heart
In charity's sacred name;
You brightened the world with a blessed art
That counts up here the same." Alexander Herrmann
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
We ask people for their I.B.M. numbers. A year later, we still don't have numbers for some of them. We can't tell whether this is just because they never have their card with them, and can't seem to reply to emails, or because they are not members. Most members (unless they are very old) will have a five-digit number. Two members can't possibly have given us the right numbers, but they can't seem to get around to checking what the number is. With about 35 members, this has become very difficult.

The regulars, who come to all or most of the meetings, are all I.B.M. members.

When we have guests, we try to sign them up for both the I.B.M. and the Ring right there, unless it's clear that they aren't magicians.

As for voting, when we have had formal, recorded votes, all we can do is make sure that people have paid their Ring dues. This is a fair amount of work. We cannot verify that they are current I.B.M. members.

Sure, we can ask them. But guess what? People lie. Mostly, however, they simply fail to respond to mail, email, and phone calls. This is the reason that we really need the roster from the International Office.

Yours,

Paul
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
Yep...it's an IBM ring for IBM members. One just has to "pay their dues" to attend.

You can't attend other "club meetings," such as the Rotary Club, etc...without actually joining the Rotary Club. That's why they have THEIR meetings. It's a private club for members only.

Why would an IBM club be any different?

Mark.
blink_inc
View Profile
Loyal user
Hamilton
278 Posts

Profile of blink_inc
It's ONLY $55!!!!
I am a Sankey addict....please, help me!

My name is Will, my company is Blink, an experience in transposition.
sirsephy
View Profile
New user
17 Posts

Profile of sirsephy
Mark, I understand. I know nothing of the Rotary Club, I do belong to the KofC and when we pay dues we pay it at the council (i.e. ring level) then the council will send the portion of dues for each member to international. With the Ring I pay dues there and dues to National on my own. This all started when we were revamping our membership procedures. We put in there that new comers may attend 3 meetings then must make a committment. Unfortunately, we have one guy who has been coming here and there way before I was a member. He has been helpful and not just a sponge, but for whatever reason doesn't want to join IBM. It is my understanding he did have financial problems in the past, but currently I think he is ok.

Don't get me wrong I believe everyone should be a member, I think it is a great organization, and don't see why anybody wouldn't want to join.

Thanks,
Dick
"You offered hope to the weary heart
In charity's sacred name;
You brightened the world with a blessed art
That counts up here the same." Alexander Herrmann
Bill Wells
View Profile
Elite user
Lexington, VA
457 Posts

Profile of Bill Wells
Quote:
On 2007-03-04 04:21, drwilson wrote:
We ask people for their I.B.M. numbers. A year later, we still don't have numbers for some of them. We can't tell whether this is just because they never have their card with them, and can't seem to reply to emails, or because they are not members. Most members (unless they are very old) will have a five-digit number. Two members can't possibly have given us the right numbers, but they can't seem to get around to checking what the number is. With about 35 members, this has become very difficult.

The regulars, who come to all or most of the meetings, are all I.B.M. members.

When we have guests, we try to sign them up for both the I.B.M. and the Ring right there, unless it's clear that they aren't magicians.

As for voting, when we have had formal, recorded votes, all we can do is make sure that people have paid their Ring dues. This is a fair amount of work. We cannot verify that they are current I.B.M. members.

Sure, we can ask them. But guess what? People lie. Mostly, however, they simply fail to respond to mail, email, and phone calls. This is the reason that we really need the roster from the International Office.

Yours,

Paul


Paul -

I am sending your message to key members of the I.B.M. Board in the hope that they might be able to change the policy that prevents you from being able to learn if those who belong to your Ring are also members of the I.B.M.

Bill
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Dear Bill,

Thank you very much. That is very helpful. We really want to do what they want us to do, we just need a bit of help. Your action might be all that is necessary. I hope so.

Yours,

Paul
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Our club was originally created as haven of those wanting to escape a dreary and dying ring that had long ago become stagnate and cliquish -- It still meets today, all four of them.
Once there was another magic club in the area it soon blossomed and grew. But like all things it soon forgot it's past and the reason it was created in the first place. A cadre of folk wished it to be associated with the IBM once again. there was of course a great deal of incarnation to this but in the end the yea's outnumbered the nay's and we once again became an IBM ring with the provision that those who were members in good standing at the transition could opt out of becoming IBM members. Most of the declining voters have chosen this option so we have an IBM ring which has a mix of IBM and Non IBM membership. It has been this way for several years and has not been an issue with anyone at all. All new members and anyone wishing to hold office must join the IBM but anyone who was grandfathered in is under no obligation to join. We have had several members who, when it comes their turn to serve as an officer, join the IBM and then allow their membership to lapse at the conclusion of their term. To some this might appear to be a rather curious arrangement but it works for us.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
Boy, do I miss the West Coast. I lived in Seattle for four years. New England isn't like that at all.

Yours,

Paul
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
Quote:
On 2007-03-05 18:54, drwilson wrote:
Boy, do I miss the West Coast. I lived in Seattle for four years. New England isn't like that at all.

Yours,

Paul


Well you could start a West Coast enclave in New england. Does it really matter if your members pay dues to the national organization if they're keeping their local dues up to date? As long as everyone's participating and getting along who cares if they are card carrying members or not? Nothing in our club changed when we affiliated with the IBM except that it cost those who wanted to join fifty bucks more a year. I don't think we've ever seen an officer from the organization come through town or gotten any kind of benefit from being an official Ring. As you said you cant get the IBM to even bother with sending you a roster of local IBM members so it obviously isn't important to them if the members of your club are official or not.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
Payne, I couldn't agree more. The IBM does a really POOR job in their dealings with local Rings.

Several years ago I was President of our local Ring and we had some big issues with some in our membership. The previous President had no luck in dealing with them either. In reaching out to the IBM National, at all levels (TVP, Natl. Sectry, Legal Affairs rep, etc...) we got absolutely NO RESPONSE after several months of effort on our part.

Well...what happened?

Most of the membership broke from the Ring and we started our own magic club, not affiliated with anyone, and have been rockin' ever since. We meet two times a month, have a monthly newsletter, a club website and hold lectures from the traveling pros. We participate in local charity, outreach functions and have a great time being around each other.

Magic is wonderful when it works. Too bad the national level hasn't caught on and is probably a big reason the numbers continue to decline.

The only reason I remain a member is for the magazine. I get absolutely nothing else from them as does everyone else I talk with, which is too bad.

Mark.
Payne
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle
4572 Posts

Profile of Payne
I'm very wary of national level organizations after having some very bad experiences, much like the ones you describe, with a couple non magic related ones. They are all very happy to collect membership dues but reticent to help you on a local level when you really need them. I read on this group that one of the reasons the national dues are going up is so that they can offer a bigger prize purse at the national convention. This is a benefit to the members how? One would think that if they wanted a larger purse that they'd collect it from the people attending the convention through higher attendance fees rather than soaking the entire membership for it.
I asked a few months ago what benefit there was from being a member of the IBM apart from getting the magazine and possibly the insurance and no one could come up with one. I look at the membership as little more than a magazine subscription and think baring someone from your local club just because they don't wish to subscribe to a particular publication is silly.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
mrunge
View Profile
Inner circle
Charleston, SC
3717 Posts

Profile of mrunge
I saw that as well. It's ridiculous to raise the National dues in order to offer a higher "prize" to the winner of a magic competition.

You're right. Raise the entry fee to the competition or the ticket prices for those attending but leave everyone else alone!

Mark.
Michael Taggert
View Profile
Special user
Fredericksburg Virginia
653 Posts

Profile of Michael Taggert
I think some of you have missed the point here. The dues are going up at a reasonable rate. There are many expesnses to cover that are included. In case you haven't looked lately there are major benefits to Joining the national membership and not just a monthly magazine and a prize at the contest. By sanctioning non IBM memebers you are deflating the importance of membership. It is national membership that attracts members in the first place and it is the local membership that keeps it alive. For those that are negative towards the national organization you are Invited to become part of it. remember you are responsible for those people that join and later become your TVP or Your International officers. The membership is only as strong as each of us makes it. Here in My neck of the woods we are strong. The good folks Up in maine are a force to recone with. (Im coming up to visit in september, Paul BTW) Encouraging people to become members only during their term of office is an insult to those that work hard for you to ensure that you are learning and getting opportunities to share. Membership in the international organization gives you the right to claim such membership. This gives your customers the confidence to book you because you belong to the organization and not the local "cardflippers at the bar Club"
Either join or go elswhere.
Believe you then that I do strange things
drwilson
View Profile
Inner circle
Bar Harbor, ME
2191 Posts

Profile of drwilson
I would like to join Michael in exploring further benefits of I.B.M. membership in this discussion. For our big public shows this year, we are making a major effort to look for sponsors and advertisers. I think that we need something to show the locals that we are something more than a bunch of guys who trade our wool shirts for top hats once a month. I think that being a local chapter of an International organization gives us legitimacy in the eyes of locals who might want to work with us.

Other benefits:

1. Our Constitution, Bylaws and Policy and Program Manual were adapted from templates provided by the International Office. True, we could have just ripped them off, but we got all this passed based in part on its being adapted from documents of proven value, provided by an organization with which we were affiliated.

2. Our status as an I.B.M. Ring has given us a new angle to promote an international event, the Worldwide Escape Artist Relay 2007. Some of the participating escape artists are in local Rings. It looks like their Rings will get behind the event, as ours has done. For the escape artists who are not already famous, this is a big push behind what they are doing.

3. What good is The Linking Ring? It's great to get coverage for your Ring. In our first year of existence (we had our first meeting with our Charter in March 2006), we have been covered twice outside of Ring Reports, once for The Perilous Garden (July 2006) and once in a call for participation in WEAR 2007 (February 2007). I have heard from magicians all over the world in connection with both articles. There is no other way for our magic club to reach this many people. Other magazines are just not going to run our press releases, but The Linking Ring does. I am amazed that so few Rings bother to send stuff in.

4. The free member web pages are a good thing. Just slap something up with a link to your site and your Ring's site, and watch yourself move up a notch in the search engine rankings. Also, people who can't manage to write a real web site can put together one of these pages.

5. The I.B.M.'s Ring Quality Program and its website competition provide standards to which our Ring can aspire. If we were not affiliated with the I.B.M., we might have a tough time convincing some of our members that it was worth the effort to try to reach these standards. I see that some other clubs have done so without I.B.M. affiliation. You must have a great mix of people. We are still growing.

6. It is true that some of the aspects of the I.B.M.'s behavior as an organization are a bit stuffy. We are discovering (read this and other threads in this section) that if you push at it a bit, the organization moves. It is, after all, made up of well-meaning people who love magic, and seem willing to adapt in response to the wishes of the local Rings.

Yours,

Paul
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Ring Membership must be IBM member? (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.22 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL