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magicgeorge
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I think Smarty Pants was actually talking about Connor's Avatar not Mystic Shriners.
mystic shriner
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I think he was, too! Besides, I look like death warmed over with a vulture on my head. What's so special about that?
Hacks: here's a bit of advice. When you get a new prop: THROW THE INSTRUCTIONS AWAY OR HIDE THE INSTRUCTIONS. It's nice to get help on a place like this, but you have to put yourself into your act...not someone else. Besides, who writes most of the instructions? Sometimes they're good, and written by an entertainer...and sometimes they're written by some magic manufacturer who obviously has no contact with the public in the way of performing magic.
Connor Scot
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Quote:
On 2007-03-27 09:28, magicgeorge wrote:
Connor does all the right tricks but not necessarily in the right order....



Thanks sunshine. Your Raccoon in a car bit sounds fantastic! Very creative and memorable.
Smarty Pants
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I was most definitely talking about Mystic Shriner's avatar, George. Yesterday he had the same taylor as Connor Scott, and today he appears to be wearing a can of ravioli on his head, covered in ape fur. However, I notice Connor has also entered the shriner taylor establishment, and looks just as dapper as Mr. Shriner looked yesterday. As this thread is all about creativity, I am delighted to see that the topic remains on topic. How do people feel about a red jacket with a black bow tie, and red spectacles? Could be a winner!
magicgeorge
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Oops, sorry Mr Doddy Pants, you are quite correct, I hadn't noticed the game of tag-team avatar gag going on.
Al Angello
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It amazes me that six months ago the jumbo prop magicians ruled, and now the jumbo talent magicians rule. Last year you either loved Silly Billy, or hated him. There have been times when if you didn't buy the latest DVD's, with the newest routines, or marketing strategy you were doomed, and during each of these era's anyone that disagreed with the loudest voices were stupid. I think it is time for the amatures to be quiet, and learn from the serious professionals, instead of arguing with them.
MY OPINION
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-03-29 20:17, Al Angello wrote:

I think it is time for the amatures to be quiet, and learn from the serious professionals, instead of arguing with them.
MY OPINION
Al Angello



Yes it's long past time to start seeking advice from those workers down in the trenches so to speak.

In fact April's edition of MAGIC has a brilliant and super creative routine described in David Kayes column (on page 92) that everyone can learn a valuable lesson from.

I couldn't have come up with a better routine had I written it myself Smile
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
chris mcbrien
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Hear, hear, Al!
I still get pm's from amateurs who want to know this or that about routining. My question to them: did'nt you actually go to school to learn how to write this material? If you did'nt go to school, have'nt you gone out to get the experience yourself?...or read books on the material you need to produce?
"Magicians helping magicians": Helping sometimes means a kick in the rear end of hacks and amateurs and telling them to stop asking so much, listen, and work like we did to develop your OWN material that's uniquely YOU...not us.
I disagree with those who say "the audience does'nt care or know".
I, my friends, am CHANGING THIS AS WE SPEAK. I now am educating my clients and audiences so they know the difference in ways that...well, if your'e a trained professional...you'll know will be sufficient to sound the death nell of those hacks out there that would try and take MY income from MY family.
What's great is that I get more for my shows and more shows than any of my area competitors...but I NEVER CALL ANYONE. They call me!
If you're good, they CALL YOU. Some pros call, I don't...my choice.
So if you're starting out, and TRULY want to live and respect this art form...which is what it is and what you'll think of it as if you are truly respectful and belong in it...you'll listen to people like Al, Danny Hustle, Kimmo (an upcoming star who should have written a book by now and is courageious enought to post his act on youtube...only a worthless hack would copy it)...Jolly Roger (and I'll say his name on this forum until Kingdom Come...the man is a legend in children's entertainment and needs to be respected...you can ban him, but respect him!), Silly Billy (Kaye),David Ginn, Bobo, Trixie Bond, Tim Hannig, Ken Scott, Tony James, Regan, George (The KING of children's entertainment in Ireland...in an area where making a living at our art form is...I can only guess from my experience...is NOT easy...he should be commended!), Payne, Lyndell, Potty and so many others on here who obviously have worked hard to be the very best they can be....
stop asking what to do with a prop you just bought because "everyone else is getting one" and listen to those who can walk into a room and entertain with whatever they lay their hands on...
Now I'll get off my soap box.....
And if you want to flame me....how "small" of you.
BTW: I'm not badmouthing any of the magic prop sponsors here...and I'm grateful to them for being here. I just want to see a drive towards unique creativity that can turn those here who genuinely want to learn to be better, myself included, into even better performers.
And now this professional, full-time, chops-from-hell entertainer is going off to work for 500 kids....HAVE FUN AND GOD BLESS!
James Munton
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“The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.”
Albert Einstein.

I think the biggest problem with kids performers is that they spend too much time thinking about tricks and not enough time thinking about their character.

I loved Smarty Pants question about Rocky the Racoon. I would go further and ask "why do you even have a racoon in your show?"

You can have the best tricks in the world, but unless you make your character memorable, you'll always be just another magician.

Best,
James
Al Angello
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Spoken like a true Englishmen.

Hey James
I won't be going to the DC convention, I've had several offers that I could not refuse.
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Tony Webs
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Hello
Iv'e just read this thread and firstly I would like to say a big thankyou. Maybe I've past the odd word here and there on this forum that you've seen, I recognise some of your pictures, my name is Tony Webs and I have spent some time developing different types of short acts , some I've used for children but this being from a small stage and only doing a few minutes. Ive worked on my acts , all of them from the ground up and it has taken me along time with a lot of effort. Im glad that you all feel the way you do about creativity, I was starting to think that the magic industry was going to be full of 'buy the next trick junkies' until its novelty wears off and then onto the next.
I like the mention about the cruise work and carrying large empty boxes, for you see in the past my number and size of props grew.During the last several years I managed to redesign and create new material so I just have a case or two. I deliberatly designed my props with this in mind. From my understaning of the matter I think that if we are inpursuit of being real magicians and if one truely were they would carry no props and create the experiences that the audience would want by using anything at hand, by making our own props and using little well I believe this to be a happy ground in becoming real magicians. ( oops you could argue this as a good case for us becoming sole hypnotists, but then Ive never met one who can hypnotise hallusinations on a mass scale. Or at least iv'e never recognised the difference.)
From
Tony Webs
Tom Riddle
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I have just come across this old thread, and it really is extremely good. However, it does seem that a few months on there are still many here on the Café who are far more interested in the latest dealers props and DVD's that are out there, than they are in creating their own material and routines. I think that is rather a shame.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
AshleyW
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Here we go again...
worried about what others are doing.

****************
And BTW if you believe that why did you post this:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=5205819

Seems rather contradictory. Must have been said for a different reason then.
Tom Riddle
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Very simple, Ashley. Ridiculous Ravioli is not a standard, mass produced dealers prop. It lends itself to great creativity on the part of the performer. The inventor is a performer first, and a dealer second. You are not supplied with all the props(such as tins), as this is left to the imagination of the performer. With the instructions that come with the effect there is much talked about the performer using his creative juices to make the best routine that is unique to him.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
AshleyW
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But you can do that with ANY item. Your argument makes no sense.
Buy ANY product, throw away the instructions and use your own creativity.
Or better yet, if you are actually creative, you won't buy anyone's junk at all.

You say that it's a shame that people get the latest props, and yet you try to sell others the latest item in passe/passe effect (which is old as magic itself), by touting the R.R. product. Again, that is contradictory.

Either you are creative or not, you cannot say that that one can only be creative by buying product X.
Doesn't work.
chris mcbrien
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I think Tom was simply complimenting a particular effect, which is not exactly getting "lost in the latest". He's simply laying down a compliment. BTW: Ridiculous Ravioli is NOT a new product. It was put out by Mr. Blakiston (or Blake) over a year ago? It's been a while. Now if you want to talk about "advertising", Blake defintely knows how to do that...and Tom is by far ONLY laying down a compliment in comparrison.
I also don't think he states anywhere that you can only be creative by buying product X.
Complimenting is not "selling" BTW.
R.R. really is not a standard dealer item, as it's not mass-marketed to magic shops and must be ordered only through the manufacturer, as are many other magic props out there.
It could appear that Tom is contradictory or it could not, depending on your knowledge of what a "newest and latest" and "common dealers item" is.
While I have nothing personal against either of you, I find it frustrating that we can't just move along here.
Can we? Please?
Tom Riddle
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Well said Chris! Now I must pour myself a Tio Pepe, and take the underground to Selfridges to get ideas for a new act I am doing with water-pistols.
"Yes, Virginia, there really are people named Riddle...isn't that AMAZING! And to think of all the royalties I'm missing out on! SCANDALOUS!"

Thomas Williamson Riddle III
Chelsea, UK
todd75
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Wow! This is a great post!

One thing that I have seen through the years is that a lot of entertainers use the same props that everyone else uses. What else is worse than showing up for a show and having the kids say, "I've seen this one before." Most of the time they are right, they have seen it a million times and know what is going to happen. The coloring book, peanut butter and jelly, professors nightmare, etc. are all great routines but they have been OVER EXPOSED!

I for one like to build a lot of my props and design them to do what I want them to do. Don't get me wrong, there are many many many great props and many great dealers out there to buy from. However, anyone can buy these, read the instructions, print a business card and call themselves an entertainer.

Creativity is not something anyone can buy...period! It is something that YOU come up with and make work for YOU and no-one else. I do have some things that I have bought and used in my shows with great results. However, I like to take them apart, repaint them so they at least look different and make something new out of them that works for me and my character.

A few months ago I decided I was tired of hauling around a suitcase table and decided to downsoze my show without taking any quality away. I now have my entire show in one suitcase and a small carrying bag. I have forced myself to be creative and find things that work for me. The result has been great! I now take only 2 minutes to setup, 30 seconds to pack and my show has gotten better.
AshleyW
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Chris, no one said in was a NEW product. (as you put it)
It's alright, we already know where you stand, you have made that clear.
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/searc......=4809036

My point remains, "Mr. Riddle" cannot seem to post without eluding to his opinion of someone's inferiority or highlighting a certain (un-named) person's products. And I think it damages this board.

Thanks.
chris mcbrien
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Ashley,
Grow up. This is a board where people should be able to express themselves without someone constantly being on their backs.

Todd,
Can you share with us more on the psychology that encouraged you to pack smaller?

Let's keep this positve so we can learn.
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