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fless
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Hi,
I am very new to magic. Since I've more or less always been messing around with cards, card tricks have a high priority in my magic. When starting, I followed suit of everyone’s recommendations, and got Wilson’s complete course. I am now through the card part of Wilson, and it is a bit thin I have to say I went through it very quickly. How do I proceed from here on? I must confess I fell for Ellusionist’s marketing and the cool factor. However, I also like thick books with massive content. I consider the following options to invest time & money, and I love to hear your thoughts on value and usefulness for a small family setting with a short and hopefully intensive show:
Card college volume 1.
From E: Army of 52 + gaff deck. Do I then need the Shapeshifter DVD as well?
ID
Deck shell + deck shell DVD
Rising card trick + gimmick
Omni deck
Kaos
Indecent

As of now; I could use 2-3 killer tricks, and then add some “fillers”.

Another random Q:
I also think about spicing up things with a custom deck. I know for you real workers there, a custom deck implies there is something fishy going on, and suspicions are roused. Strangely enough, I think a custom deck will work to my advantage, and actually ADD credibility, in that I appear like a magi, and not this guy fooling around with a worn-out deck doing the 21 card trick. Add impact the show that is. And yes, I guess this is compensating for my lack of reputation amongst people who known me for ages and never seen me perform any trick whatsoever.

Well, how about custom decks, which one to go for? Vipers and Masters don’t have the gaffs and gimmicks, so I guess I will have to chose between Ghost Bikes or Black Tigers. I guess ghost will induce the least headache. Any reason to prefer tigers over ghosts?
karbonkid
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What Deags said...and you are your reputation...not your cards.
Andy the cardician
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There should be no fillers. Your magic should be one graceful flow of amazement, wonder and astonishment.

So how to get started - Card college is a great way to go - it also has some nice tricks inside. You will soon find out that you do not need gimmicks and gaffs to make magic happens. Do not misunderstand me, gaffs and gimmicks can greatly add to your magic - but your magic should not depend on them only.

Andy
Cards never lie
Jonathan Townsend
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Have a look at the Hofzinser material.
Then at the "Expert at the Card Table" section on conjuring

And then you can START your studies of card magic.

In the mean time, enjoy dabbling and playing with tricks
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Roger Kelly
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I'm not sure Strong Magic (Ortiz) is the way to go - just yet. Not much of it will make sense. Take the advice offered so far - especially Jonathan's "dabbling and playing" and you'll begin to get an idea of logically putting a routine together. Read these pages of all that you are interested in until everything you recognise what people are talking about. Then read Strong Magic and Maximum Entertainment by Weber.
Shodan
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I was in your shoes a couple of years ago. I bought a few "tricks" - things like rising deck etc. and guess what? They've sat in a drawer gathering dust ever since.

I would STRONGLY recommend Greg Wilson's "Double Take" DVD as an excellent starting point with your card magic. Card College is also an excellent resource and Expert Card Technique is a good reference.

As far as thinking about shows etc. goes I would offer the following advice. I have been practising card magic for about 2-3 years now and I practise for several hours every day. I am only just starting to think about what I want to present to audiences as a performer and I have been through many different styles of effect/presentation etc. on my way here. And, I am still fairly "new" even 3 years in! I wouldn't worry about what people think of your magic just yet. Get the recommended materials and enjoy studying them, learning and then practising. When you feel really good about it show somebody a trick or two every now and then to get started with the whole "performance" thing. You're still not doing a "show". Ultimately your style and personality will dictate your performances.

Every single time I spend money on "a trick" I am disappointed, because I could have put that money towards a book or DVD which offers me the chance to grow as a magician rather than a little gizmo.

People always stress that you learn more from books than DVDs but I find the experience of watching a good performer perform has done me a vast service. I particularly recommend Greg Wilson's DVDs - particularly Double Take as mentioned above - John Guastaferro's DVDs and David Regal's DVDs.

Hope that's of some use to you.

David
"You don't go up to strangers with a stick and come at their head...introduce yourself first, then come at them with a stick." - David Williamson
hornet
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Hi Fless,

I've been doing card magic for a few years now but like David still consider myself new to all this! I think my biggest mistake has been to buy all the latest gizmos that come out, practicing them for a bit then putting them away while I wait for the next "greatest trick" to arrive! Don't get me wrong, enjoy the dabbling and playing, as that's part of the fun, but don't feel you have to be constantly buying the latest effect in order to be a better magician.

I started with Royal Road to Card Magic, by that I mean the book although I hear R Paul Wison's DVD set of the same name is a cracker if you've got the money to spend and you prefer that method of learning. Also Expert Card Technique and a small book called Techno Card Magic, which has some of the newer sleights.

As far as DVD's go, you can't go wrong with the Michael Ammar Easy to Master series (Vols 1-6), there's enough material in there to put together a cracking routine!

Good luck!!

Paul
danielrmk
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I would like to state the following after Hornet's comment:

I own the Royal Road to Card Magic both the DVD set and the Book. The DVD's are meant to be used as a complementary aid of the Book. That means it just helps you absorb the info in the book better. But some of parts are not included in the DVD so beware. I would recomend Royal Road the Book. You can also get great info about magic theory here at the Café.


- Dani R.
hornet
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Hi Dani,

Thanks for pointing that out, I thought the DVD closely followed the book and therefore could be used as a standalone learning tool. If that's not the case, the book is an absolute bargain and well worth hunting down!

Kind regards

Paul
The Hitchhiker
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That's how I started out about 3 years ago with the Royal Road To Card Magic paperbacks, I worked pretty hard on them and learnt at a fair pace but not untill I gathered some well recommended dvd's did I reach a much higher level quickly, I actually went on to purchase around 50 dvd's thus far so it is quite a library of card magic performances and tutorials.

I must agree with the advise from the guys above I wouldn't rely on gimmicks too much, I myself avoid them completely as I like the spectators to check out the cards at all times, I am not familiar with the teaching on the gaff deck but I would think that without learning any sleights your going to have trouble loading and unloading gaff cards in a multi routine and I bet E does not teach anything about this aspect, the E demo for the gaff deck looks fun though for the odd effect.

As for the cards I would go for the ghosts or just a normal bicycle deck, easier on the eye for the spectactors IMHO. Tigers are for XCM.

Some Recommended DVD's for performing from me are

Easy to master card miracles - Micheal Ammar (one of the best if not 'the' best tutors in the game)

The Richard Saunders Show volume 2 (Richards 'Mr stickman' effect is a must do very funny and great reactions)
also includes a card rising effect with a borrowed deck! not easy to do but he shows a very effective method if not the only one in excistance.

Best value especially second hand now as these were very popular Dvd's
Jerrys Lucky Sevens vol 1-3
Complete Card Magic 1-7 ( even though my erdnase pawns jerrys Smile )

The Pass with Randy Wakeman

From E I did rate the ultimate guide to 'Ambitiouxs Card' Dvd fairly high, if you are into ACR its worth a watch.

Other Card Effects
Color Fusion - Expert Magic .com


Good luck in your future performances


Jason.

'Sure glad I found this place, a mountain of information and nice folk ....
Lastormdsm
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My vote goes for card college as I have been in your shoes quite recently.

There have been a lot of temptations in buying gimmicks and I will admit there are two I have bought in the last 8 months. Both are already sitting in a desk and haven't been touched outside of the first two weeks I had them. My card college books have been with me the whole time and have by FAR been the best investment I've made this time around.

The only piece of information I have used that wasn't that bad was the Ninja 1 and 2 from ellusionst.com. My my interest was in some of the classic pass moves they were discussed but I found some other little tid bits here and there that to me mad it worth the money spent. that's just my opinion though (comming from a very green card worker ;-) )
xmkazz
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I would get Card College, and work through the entire set slowly and methodically. I've been at it for about 3 months and am one third of the way through book 2, though still haven't mastered much of book 1. Don't take shortcuts.

Kaz
fless
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Hi guys;

And lot of thanks for your inspirational replies! Really. Smile

As most of you suggest; I will try a middle-of-the-road approach; doing the hard stuff and fool around with gaffs, single tricks, gimmicks etc. After all; you got here and if I do the same mistakes you did and get there, that's fair with me. I opt not to be too hardcore, since:
A. My main goal is to entertain my family and close relatives, and can I entertain with a stupid gizmo, that's perfectly ok with me.
B. I wish to become a little less introvert, and praciticing for years without performing doesn't suit. I'm quite sure it will make a better magician, but honestly I'm ok being an ordinary one.

Just for the record: I never intended ignoring sleigths; I know a few or them already, and sleights is what attracts me to cards in the first place. Plus my long experience dealing with cards.

XCM: That's extreme card magic?

Cheers;
DomKabala
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XCM: Extreme Card Manipulation. Card Manipulation is divided into two categories/ subdivisions: SOH (sleight of hand) and Flourishing.
A SOH artist uses this to perform magical effects/tricks. This the the most popular and most commercial of the two. Edward Marlo and Dai Vernon fit in this category. Flourishing with cards involves complete control and fancy handling with cards. Dan and Dave Buck, Jeff McBride are fine examples of this category. The great Paul LePaul & Cardini are examples of the two categories, both were great flourishers and SOH artists, and used both categories in their performances. BTW there is a lot of good advice so far...good luck and have fun!!
Cardamagically,
<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>> Smile Smile
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



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fless
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Ok! Thanks a lot! Effects/tricks is my thing. Flourishing is essentially juggling from my perspective. Smile
Chessmann
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A bit off topic:

Learn to differentiate tricks you like against tricks that an audience will like.

There are a couple of tricks that I simply had to drop because, as much as I enjoy performing them, they don't appeal to the spectators as much. I don't like not doing them, but my repetoire is more entertaining. So it was worth it.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
scorch
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Quote:
On 2007-03-05 09:00, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Have a look at the Hofzinser material.
Then at the "Expert at the Card Table" section on conjuring

And then you can START your studies of card magic.


Going through ancient resources is a great way to learn the history of card magic, and something that we should all do to have a sense of how card magic has evolved to its present state.

But it's not a very smart way of learning your technique. For that, Card College is about the best you can do without the help of a personal master instructor.
mc_magi
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I think Jonathan is saying that the OP should study the history of the magic before learning anything in magic - am I far off?
Jonathan Townsend
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Have a close look at Hofzinser's works and then see what makes sense.

The guy was doing ace assemblies and something close to wildcard LONG ago.

And using sleights more advanced than many of us today.

And he had presentations for his tricks.

So... perhaps some of what we have today is devolved from what he was doing back then.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
scorch
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Have a close look at Hofzinser's works and then see what makes sense...

The guy was doing ace assemblies and something close to wildcard LONG ago.
...

...perhaps some of what we have today is devolved from what he was doing back then.


Oh sure. Some of what we have today is devolved. Some. And if you have a good foundation of the breadth and depth of today's card magic (as represented in Giobbi's Card College), you certainly would have the wherewithal to know which of Hofzinser's works still have potential, and which of his works are not worth working on.

After all, today we don't have to be content with "something close to wildcard." We have Wildcard! And all of its variants. And as for ace assemblies, there are so many more recent handlings of that plot out there today that would be superior for beginners that one needn't consult Hofsinzer, just because we are impressed that he was ahead of his time in that regard.

Again, I totally support the idea of going through the antiquated resources. But unless you have a technical foundation already, you won't be able to make an informed assessment about what is of value in them. To recognize and appreciate that Hofzinser (like Erdnase) was way ahead of his time is one thing. But that doesn't mean it's a better place for an aspiring young card magician to learn their basic craft from books that were written a century ago, before the time period that saw more innovation in card magic than any other.

We need to recognize and appreciate the past masters, and glean what we can from their legacy. We don't need to fetishize them or idolize them.
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