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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The International Brotherhood of Magicians! » » Is TVP an Exclusive Office? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

drwilson
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I have tried to get an answer on this from the International Office, and have not yet heard back from them. I have a relatively simple question about elective office in the I.B.M.

Is the office of Territorial Vice President an exclusive one? That is, is it possible for the TVP to also be an elected officer in a local Ring?

Thank you in advance to anyone who can answer this question.

Yours,

Paul
Payne
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One would think that it would be a conflict of interest to be both a Ring Officer and a TVP. But since at least around these parts the TVP is strictly a ceremonial position as we have never seen or heard from ours in the six or seven years that our club has been associated with the IBM I really wouldn't think it would matter if he held a position in a local club.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
drwilson
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Dear Payne,

That's the issue that we are attempting to address as well. Officially, it's not a ceremonial position; there are responsibilities.

It is "a custom more honored in the breach than in the observance."

Yours,

Paul
Father Photius
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PM Scott Wells he is one, he should know.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-03-13 13:25, drwilson wrote:
Dear Payne,

That's the issue that we are attempting to address as well. Officially, it's not a ceremonial position; there are responsibilities.

It is "a custom more honored in the breach than in the observance."

Yours,

Paul


Good luck. We just had a real mover and shaker (he pretty much single handedly through hard work and determination doubled or tripled the membership of our local club) try to apply to become our new TVP to replace the one I mentioned in my first post. They rejected his application due to a real minor technicality so we are once again stuck with a TVP who treats it as a ceremonial position.
Of course it really doesn't matter to me as our club gets along fine without interfacing with the TVP and since I'm not a member of the IBM I really don't have any say in the matter. However if I were a dues paying member I'd sort of like to see the guy once or twice a year just to know he knows we exist.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Mike Gorman
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Many TVP's are also officers of Rings. There is no problem with that. Being a TVP means that you will represent and try to visit all the Rings in your area. You interpret the International Rules and help your Rings if they have questions or troubles. You are the interface between the local Ring and IBM HQ and should work with the TVP coordinator (currently Joan Caesar)to submit reports and get information from her to pass along to your Rings.
Hope this helps!

Mike Gorman
Past IBM Int'l President (and also past TVP for NY)
drwilson
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Dear Mike,

Thank you very much! That's just the answer that we were hoping for.

Yours,

Paul
spatrick
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I am an elected TVP (Eastern PA) and also a Vice-President for my local ting (332).

I am sure that you will find many TVP's who are, or were officers in thier local club, as many members who serve thier own club usually do a great job at the next level.

S. Patrick
Dave V
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I assume his concern is what to do if the problem is the TVP himself? Then what? Go to Joan Caesar? What if they have a problem with Joan? Etc...
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
drwilson
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We are just looking to have a TVP who is more involved with our Ring. We will probably attempt to nominate someone from within our group of active members who regularly attend Ring meetings.

Yours,

Paul
Dave V
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I'm curious to hear more about Payne's "minor technicality." If there's a flaw in the TVP system, I'm sure somebody would like to know about it.

Drwilson, I know TVP's are a state-wide position, so it'll probably take some campaigning on your part. I think there can be a vote during IBM's normal election period, assuming there's someone to vote for (unopposed pretty much automatically get in without voting) and enough people know about your candidate to vote for him (her). I think TVP's have a 2 year term, so it may take a while before a vote comes up again.

David (Past TVP Nevada)
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
drwilson
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Dave,

We are the only Ring in Maine. Most of the members in Maine are in our Ring, and we have recently contacted the others to invite them to join. If the position of TVP is contested, there is an election conducted by mail by the I.B.M., with all members in Maine eligible to vote. This is from this document:

http://www.magician.org/electionrules.pdf

I can find nothing in the online resources at the I.B.M. that states the term of the TVP. This is frustrating! Our little Ring has its Constitution, Bylaws, and Policy and Program Manual online for anyone to see. The I.B.M. ought to have the documents describing the rules online.

Yours,

Paul
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-03-16 06:44, drwilson wrote:
Dave,

We are the only Ring in Maine. Most of the members in Maine are in our Ring, and we have recently contacted the others to invite them to join. If the position of TVP is contested, there is an election conducted by mail by the I.B.M., with all members in Maine eligible to vote. This is from this document:



If the TVP is a statewide position and you're the only club in the state why do you need a TVP?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Dave V
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Good question. I was TVP with *no* Rings in the state. I suppose the mechanism has to be in place even if it's not needed. Local Rings don't have the resources that TVP's have. I had big notebooks of bylaws, forms, regulations, flyers, rosters, etc... that Ring members never see.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-03-16 12:30, Dave VanVranken wrote:
Good question. I was TVP with *no* Rings in the state. I suppose the mechanism has to be in place even if it's not needed. Local Rings don't have the resources that TVP's have. I had big notebooks of bylaws, forms, regulations, flyers, rosters, etc... that Ring members never see.


Shouldn't each ring have access to this information without going through a TVP? When I was the head of a local club that was affiliated with a large national organization I routinely got rosters of the local membership, updates to the bylaws, access to all the necessary forms etc. We paid our dues to the national organization and this is one of the benefits we recieved for our investment. Our local officers also each had a counterpart in the national organization that they new how to get in contact with as well as access to the BOD. I've not seen this in the IBM. When I was secretary of our local ring I was never contacted by my counterpart in the national organization and only knew about the requirments of the office because of a beat up old flyer the previous secretary gave me outlining the antiquated and cumbersome formating required to submit club reports in.
Curiously I stopped sending in club reports for the two years of my reign as secretary and never heard a peep out of the editor of the Linking Ring as to why they stopped comming. What exactly are the duties of the officers of the IBM anyway?
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Payne
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Quote:
On 2007-03-16 12:30, Dave VanVranken wrote:
Good question. I was TVP with *no* Rings in the state. I suppose the mechanism has to be in place even if it's not needed. Local Rings don't have the resources that TVP's have. I had big notebooks of bylaws, forms, regulations, flyers, rosters, etc... that Ring members never see.


Wouldn't it then have been your job to try and form a ring? Get a hold of the membership of the IBM in the state and see if there was an interest in forming a club. After all they may very well have not known about the other IBM members in their area but if they did might very well like to get together with them.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
Dave V
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Well, not exactly. I can't drag people into a meeting room if they don't want to go. TVPs are available mainly to answer questions and provide resources for those who wish to form a ring. I can't form it for them.

In my case, they knew about each other. There was another meeting that took place every week and had been meeting this way for over 30 years. At that time they were adamantly against joining any organization.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
drwilson
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Payne,

It's funny, there was a TVP in Maine for eight years before a group of people formed a Ring. The TVP showed up for the organizational meeting, but we had everything we needed from the I.B.M. just by downloading it from their web site, and by sending a couple of emails back and forth. If there are truckloads of documents that we aren't allowed to see, it's difficult to imagine what is in them.

Obviously, there is no motivational material.

This is not aimed at Dave. Most of the magicians in our new Ring hadn't met each other before. It wasn't like there was a rich tradition of a local magic club that was not interested in affiliating with an international organization.

Yours,

Paul
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2007-03-16 17:52, Payne wrote:

Shouldn't each ring have access to this information without going through a TVP? When I was the head of a local club that was affiliated with a large national organization I routinely got rosters of the local membership, updates to the bylaws, access to all the necessary forms etc. We paid our dues to the national organization and this is one of the benefits we recieved for our investment. Our local officers also each had a counterpart in the national organization that they new how to get in contact with as well as access to the BOD. I've not seen this in the IBM. When I was secretary of our local ring I was never contacted by my counterpart in the national organization and only knew about the requirments of the office because of a beat up old flyer the previous secretary gave me outlining the antiquated and cumbersome formating required to submit club reports in.
Curiously I stopped sending in club reports for the two years of my reign as secretary and never heard a peep out of the editor of the Linking Ring as to why they stopped comming. What exactly are the duties of the officers of the IBM anyway?


I can't answer why others did what they did in building the organizational structure. I can understand that part of this could be simple economics. Rather than send out over 300 full sets of stuff the Rings may never even look at or even need, sets are sent to the 100 or so TVP's instead. All the Rings have access to this information. All they need to do is ask their TVP.

It seems your concern is that the higher levels don't take the time to pester the members for information if they don't offer it voluntarily. You've brought up some good points. Maybe you should submit them to IBM HQ for consideration, and present your concerns at the next annual Board meeting. It's open to all IBM members.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Steve Hart
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Addressing Mr. Payne's statement:

"We just had a real mover and shaker (he pretty much single handedly through hard work and determination doubled or tripled the membership of our local club) try to apply to become our new TVP to replace the one I mentioned in my first post. They rejected his application due to a real minor technicality so we are once again stuck with a TVP who treats it as a ceremonial position."

I was on the committee which viewed this petition for application and there were more than one problem. All of them plain and simple but not minor. We could not accept it as offered.

Don't get me wrong the I.B.M. only wants TVPs that are going to do their job.
I was TVP for both Indiana and Northern Florida a combined 14 years. It is a job
which takes a volunteer with time, effort and money.

The current TVP which Mr. Payne is addressing is being questioned upon this matter. Joan Ceasar, our International Vice-President, heads up all the TVPs and she has been very concerned about this issue. You can contact her at jcaesar@sentax.ca


Steve Hart

I.B.M. Membership Chair
www.SteveHartSpeaks.com
www.magic2motivate.com
"Motivational Magicians are some of the highest paid magicians, find out why?"
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