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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
I got into coin magic, because I love coin magic. However, I never dreamed this field was so gargantuan. I feel there is so much I have to do and there is not enough hours in the day. Boy When I pick a hobby, I pick a hobby!
I practice the basics daily ala Roth and Rubinstein and some others. I am working on learning edge grip ala Mr. Harbottle. I am learning the techniques of Mr. Bertini. I am starting to get into the 3 Fly with Mr. Townsend and others as my guide. I am looking forward to learning the Godfathers "Crimp" move. I am looking to study works of Mr. Kam. I need to learn John Ramsay material. I can go on and on and on..... How do you guys keep your head on straight? I am getting to the point where I am being totally overwhelmed, you know, about to explode! Don't get me wrong, I love the stuff, but I its getting to where I don't know where to turn to next. Normally I am a very organized and structured person. It isn't easy though, when you have a "million" things on your plate at the "same" time. Am I the only one that feels that way? Is this just a fact of a coin magicians life? Am I going about this the wrong way? Is there a better way? What I am asking here is your thoughts on the subject. I don't know maybe its just me, but I am interested what all my peers here at the Café have to say about it. Your input would be greatly appreciated.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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tyrael07 Regular user Surabaya , Indonesia 105 Posts |
I'm having the same problem with you fingers.
at times,i don't know just whether to avoid the internet as it often strays me from learning the classics and basics. and tempt me to learn the abundant new stuffs I wish I could just stick to the basics (bobo, roth) for a few years. and then dwelve into the new stuffs. but I'd risk missing a good effect such as coinone, etc... any advices?
The impossible things are often the untried.
Magic is not what you see. It's about what you make others see. |
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rutabaga Inner circle Toronto, Canada 1283 Posts |
LOL, I found the same thing starting out several years ago. I was like a hungry man suddenly finding himself at a banquet, not knowing what to eat first!
Well, if it helps, I found in the last six months or so things have settled down a great deal. I've found some techniques that most appeal to me, and fit my natural style. The fervour has gone, to be replaced with quiet practice, and I must say a form of confidence. Stick with it, and enjoy this phase of discovery. Just make sure you have enough cash - it can get expensive! [Anyone want to buy a special Schoolcraft coin set PM me! ] |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Look at the different plots and work with them or create your own plot.
Plots may be Transpositions such as coins across, to glass, fly routines, assemblies, etc. Penetrations like through a table, Okito Box penetrations, etc. Transformations like wild coins, spellbound, growing and shrinking coins or whatever. Then there are the productions and vanishes which can be used to open and close routines or used in 'Hanging Coins' or Miller's 'Silver Dream'. And of course there are those Roth routine such a "Portable Hole", "Tuning Fork" and the like. What I've learned a while back is that I had to focus on a few plots. My cup was overflowing. I needed to empty it an begin to refill it in a more thoughtful way. I picked a couple of plots that could be used for strolling and table and worked on ideas with material I had and things I learned during my exploration period. Some combine the effects mentioned above and some are more direct. This worked better for me than trying to learn every routine and sleight. If you have Bobo and Roth you have enough material to last for quite some time. I get curious and tempted about new stuff but have to stop and ask myself if buying it or learning it is really necessary. Most times, and as an amateur/hobbyist, my answer is no. Good luck. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Why rush?
Perhaps you might enjoy working through The Stars of Magic or The Vernon Book of Magic? Or just take a year and work through The Ramsay Legend and see how those ideas work for you. Some of us were fortunate to do most of this process while very young and before we had our own bad habits and also to do this before we would treat any text as gospel as opposed to "what worked for THEM". Yeah... back in high school. Four years of unashamed coin dropping and trying out everything we could get our hands on. But for the adults here... some good news. Most of what's in the books was written by grownups who passed on the things that OVER THE YEARS worked for them. Nice to work from descriptions of finished works. Well mostly... some of those folks tried to get clever and left stuff out or "held back". As a result you can do some research and find most of the "missing pieces" from the 1940s stuff got into print in the 1970s and 1980s. Okay this advise won't get you all tricked up in the latest most fashionable moves BUT if you want to learn magic with coins... it really is time you started to discover what works for you (as far as your audiences are concerned) and what has been done before so you can then evolve (or intelligently design) your own magic. Feel free to ask questions. Enjoy.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
Fingers,
You might be surprised to learn what many very good coin magicians don't know. Magic is like Medicine, you can be a General Practitioner or a specialist. As a coin specialist you should learn a little of everything while you focus on coins. But with a field as broad as coin magic you don't have to know everything about coins magic. Just master what you do know.
Wes
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
For me life and magic including coins must be balanced.
Elsewhere on the Café I joined other writers on the subject of magic (buying and practicing) as an addiction. Your post reminded me of a workshop that I put on with Jason Dean for Ring 129. It was sort of old school meets new school look at coins. While I have gotten some "new" stuff in the last 10 years, most is going back to old books, manuscripts and magazines. Although I would like to buy all the stuff that appeals as eye candy, it is a lot easier(to refrain) these days than when I began my journey into coin magic. (After seeing folks like Goshman,Chanin,Vernon,Slydini....) Lately after buying a boston box(replaced the one I had for 20+ years and lost)I have been looking into playing with stuff as old as M.Bey. What's old is new again... Inch by inch it's a cinch. Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
Here's an excellent rule of thumb. If you want to learn, for learning's sake and want to just marinade in all the methods and routines, then start with all the classics (that Mr. Townsend referenced - Stars of Magic, Roth, Rubenstein, are great starts). Sounds like you're already doing that.
However, if time is of the essense here, and you want to actually perform - then I would start with routines that you can actually start to use. If you find yourself sitting to perform - then many of Roth's and Slydini's classic works are for you. But if you're like most of us, and perform standing, then start with some of the classic standup effects: copper/silver (Roth's standup version is a must); coins across (many methods and routines); color changes, transpositions, etc. Actually perform them, and you will soon find out what works and what doesn't. This will also eliminate a whole slew of tricks and effects that you won't need to waste your time on. Eugene Burger makes a great point in one of his books that even though you may love an effect, may really, really want to perform an effect, if it doesn't fit in your style or performing environment, don't do it. |
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snushy Veteran user 338 Posts |
I think a great way to go is to check out David Roth's Live in London Lecture. It's on one of the L&L collections. The theme of the lecture is that coin magic doesn't have to be knuckle busting to be good.
Always remember the effect on the layman. He doesn't (or shouldn't) know anything about sophisticated technique. If he's blown away by something you didn't have to sacrifice your entire youth to learn, your confidence will grow. The first thing Roth teaches in the lecture is his Shell Coins Across from his indispensable book "Expert Coin Technique." It was strong enough to perform on the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and it is well within the technical grasp of anyone reading this. If you like, gradually add more and more sophisticated techniques to your arsenal, but never just for the sake of knowing the sleight. You can be a very successful coin magician without ever being able to do the stuff Harbottle does. L. Zaslow
YOU KNOW WHY YOU DON'T SEE? BECAUSE YOU DON'T WATCH! - SLYDINI
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Kainoa Elite user NewArk, Delaware 424 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-03-19 08:27, Fingers wrote: Is it really different in any of the genres of magic when you get down to it? Or anything fun in life when you get past the merely "starting out" mode and into the beginnings of connoisseurship? There are always layers of involvement and complexity to all the things we do, and people who always take it more seriously then we do. The nice thing about hobbies is that, unless you have a specific goal you want to work for, you can treat it like a buffet: a sampling of the old or the new (and I don't mean either in a pejorative sense, which is where the buffet metaphor breaks down...some crunchy Roth, some undercooked Kranzo...it doesn't work, because everything is fresh if it's your focus and it gets you somewhere. I'm obviously just hungry). However, I think a lot of the suggestions so far boil down to focus on what you like in such a way that you set a reachable goal for yourself: "by the 1st of April, 2007 I will have done David Roth's Shelled Coins Across for at least five laypersons." Don't let the fact that you're like a kid in a candy store take you away from the organizational skills you mention you already have. Schedule not just the effect, but the moves. If you did the same move ten times every day, you might not be able to do it in a week, but in a month? A year? How long does it take to do ten moves ten times every day, once you get used to it? Isn't it just like exercise--you make the time for it if it's important to you? So make choices, set a schedule--still take time to sample--but focus yourself on what you like the most: which is hopefully the effect that you believe will have the greatest impact on your audience. Quote:
On 2007-03-19 14:53, snushy wrote: Probably more so. Look at what that Curtis Kam or Reed McClintock guy can do! |
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
First of all I want to thank all of you for your input! I know I can always depend on you guys to give me some greatly appreciated help. I think all of you have some very good information and ideas on the subject.
I think my main problem is that I love it "all". I find good things in all types of coin magic I have seen and I am sure there is a lot of material I "haven't" seen that would appeal to me too. I even find very great things in doing simply the basics, for instance, just doing a very deceiving finger palm or palm to palm change and not to mention the tough stuff such as edge grip or a muscle pass. I am not even talking about the fact of learning how to present your material to the spectator or thinking about managing the spectators or the patter used when performing, which is a science in itself. It just all seems endless. What I did get from you guys is probably after all the dust has settled from finding out about all the "new" and "old" information, DVDs, books, downloads, manuscripts and the excellent coin artists is that I have probably have got to find "my" niche, "my" place in all this turmoil. Finding my "niche" won't be easy, because as I said I love it "all", but I think eventually I will have to choose some particular area in coin magic that suits me. I guess to find what I can do the best and capitalize on it. I would rather do "one" excellent routine, then ten bad routines. One thing I have learned is that everyday I practice the basics for a reason and that is to develop a solid foundation. I have noticed no matter what area of coin magic your in from the easiest to the toughest your basics do come into play all the time and are a necessity. So, no matter what area I choose to specialize in it will include the basics. Now the tough part choosing an area to specialize in. I think I will just keep on keeping on for now having fun discovering all this wonderful coin magic out here. However, I will have in the back of my mind the thought of my specialty. I also want anyone who would like to, to add any more thoughts on the subject to this post, because I know there are a lot of very knowledgeable people here at the Café and I am sure I will benefit from your advice. Thanks again for the help guys.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
You must have posted just before I did Mr. Harbottle. I just read your post and thank you for your input. I do like your idea of focusing and setting goals for myself. I haven't picked a specialty yet to focus on, but I do think I will eventually. You might be pleased to know I am leaning in the area of all that stuff Harbottle does, ha. That edge grip stuff holds a special place in my heart for the challenge it presents and for satisfaction of knowing it can and does amaze the spectators when done properly.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Hi fingers find a palm or technique that you are comfortable with work it so it is part of you,,,You mentioned the edge grip.. Café member Mono Tejera is a master of this palm contact him he will help you ,
vinny |
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travisb Special user Vancouver, BC 546 Posts |
Loving everything is awesome. Go for it!
-Travis P.S. Lots of good advice! I personally think that Doug Brewer's reply has some very sensible advice, and I'd emphasize that post. |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Sounds like suffering from the modern technology and media syndrome. Back when I was starting in magic, there wasn't a whole lot out there, a few books, videos didn't exist. You occassionally got to see a lecture, and clubs were always an excellent source of learning. As such there wasn't so much available so easily and inexpensively. You took a book like Bobo's and started through it, and if you ran into problems, hopefully one of the local club members had figured it out and could show you. Thus, we learned slower, and took things in more basic steps. Today for a couple of hundred dollars you can have hours of moves and routines in videos, many at very advanced levels. The tendency for new magicians is to try to learn it all at once. But like any other field that has many techniques, and requires considerable practice to aquire suitable skill, it simply takes time, and you need to push back the urge to go learn advanced and complex techniques and routines, and take the time to master the simpler moves and routines before moving on.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
I'm starting to realize that there is always going to be stuff out there that I don't have a handle on......and never will. I try to live a few years behind everyone else. I let the dust settle and see what's left. I can't count all the routines or DVDs that I had to force myself NOT to buy and now I glad I didn't.
Take a look at what's been around for a while and everyone is still talking about. (Don't get me wrong, I not saying that just because people have forgotten about something it not good. I'm saying some things look better when they first come out.) Also, if it's been around awhile, you will begin to pick up on it a bit and know how it works and whether or not it is for you. Also, there are a lot of great people involved in coin magic and magic in general. I've emailed many of the one's putting the material out and have always gotten solid assistance.
Wes
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Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
A young magician told the great David Devant that he knew about three hundred tricks. David Devant responded that he knew only 8 tricks! To David Devant, knowing a trick meant a great deal more than just knowing how to execute the moves.
Jonathan Townsend lists what I think is the best idea. Choose some routines from good sources and learn them well. Read and learn everything you can, but don't look too far ahead. The mountain is too large for one person to see all of it in a lifetime. The fun is in the trip.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
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Michael Rubinstein V.I.P. 4665 Posts |
I am really enjoying reading this thread. I always felt that you should make an attempt to be familiar with all lthe new material coming out in coin magic, but you are no means obbligated to learn everything! Its best to pick and choose what best matches your style and performing philosophy, and try it on to see if it fits. Sometimes you get a new move that compliments or improves what you are already doing. Other times, you find something that helps you to formulate new ideas and travel down new paths. You don't have to learn everyone's style - but there's nothing wrong with familiarizing yourself with them. As I said, the best thing is to select what feels best for you, and go with it!
S.E.M. (The Sun, the Moon, and the Earth) is a sun and moon routine unlike any other. Limited to 100 sets, here is the promo:
https://youtu.be/aFuAWCNEuOI?si=ZdDUNV8lUPWvtOcL $325 ppd USA (Shipping extra outside of USA). If interested, shoot me an email for ordering information at rubinsteindvm@aol.com |
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Again I have to thank you guys! There is some excellent information and ideas in this post, the input is wonderful!
Thank you Vinny for the reference. Actually the only problem I have with the edge grip right now is getting enough practice time in, if you know what I mean. Thank you travisb, Doug does make some great points. You got it right photius, I think I am suffering from "modern technology and media syndrome", LOL. Sounds like I might not have had this problem years ago. Thanks for your input Wes and I know how you feel! Thanks Mr. Hallahan, you make some very interesting points. I would love to learn everything, but I know I am going to have to except that some of the material won't fit my style and if I could just learn a few really good routines real well I will have accomplished a lot. Thanks Mr. Rubinstein, I totally agree with your post! Only I don't, so much feel obligated to learn everything, just that I seem to like "all" the styles out there. They all seem to have certain things that make the routines involved great, no matter what the area of coin magic. You guys are doing great! I love hearing "everyones" ideas. It is so nice having a "support team" like this here at the Café. Thank you, thank you, thank you.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
Fingers,
I think a magician will always be hungry. Its the appetite to learn new things that is so innnate in us. Later the magician learns to cook for himself. This is where the fun really begins. I am always overwhelmed, always excited like a kid seeing his first trick. They all said it here. I must say that that is an irritatingly wonderful feeling! Its crazy! Just find what suits your personality and where you seem to enjoy the most while being able to deliver the chops as well. You know you can always count on me man! I'm just a PM away for anything! Have fun bro! that's what its all about!
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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