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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Hello Everyone,
I have been doing magic for many years and like to think that I have a good show. I have re-worked and re-worked my act to get the most that I can get out of it. I would like to know if scripting a mentalism program should follow the same kind of format as any other program. I have never seen a mentalism show and do not know if I would just follow the same format as I do in my Magic shows. Since I am dealing with the mind are there a different way to program my show to make it more powerful? I have never done a mind reading program but since I will use psychological effects it seems to me that I would set up my program by placing my effects in a more psychological order. In this way the program builds into a more powerful presentation. Am I just thinking to hard? Seems that there is or should be a psychological method of pacing and setting up your show. I know that you need lows and highs in your show to move it along. Would I come out as in my magic show, hit them hard with flash, bang and awe? Or do I need to start slow to build rapport and to get into their mind and make them just uses their brains as they sit there? The only mentalism that I have ever seen was on TV, platform or stage all during a magic show. Some are WELL KNOW guys. You know the effects pick a square or number or picture. Now move up or down or left to right to the next …..ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Wow! I fell asleep I am back now. I have seen magicians on platform and stage that would throw in a mind reading bit in their program. I to say this but I always feel that it was out of place and was not any different from the pace and mood of their show. I felt that their mind reading was just tricks and once again I feel like ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. If I were to place a mind reading bit in my magic show (I am not) I would want it to stand out from my magic, with a totally different feel and power of its own. If it is just going to blend into my magic why do it? I know that there are magicians out there who understand this and do pack a punch when doing their mind reading bits. Some are here on the CAFÉ but I have never seen their shows so I am at a lost in designing a program. Any help would be cool. Best Ray |
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DT3 Inner circle Hill Valley 1920 Posts |
This may seem strange, but it's just my two cents worth.
I say forget about what tricks you want to do. Write a story in your head. This will be the story of your stage persona, which should be an extension of yourself. Remove all boundaries as you write this story. Once you have the story and how you choose to illustrate it in your mind, THEN it's time to start thinking about what you can show your audience to bring them along on your masterpiece. After all of this is in place, then it's time to figure out how to actually do it. At the same time, continue your quest for information and imbibe all of the mentalism literature you can and that way, when you approach an effect you want to show, in the back (or front or middle) of your brain, you will have the workings ready to put into place. This is just my take on the whole thing, so please don't take it too seriously. The most important thing, I think, is to have fun and do the most you can to really stir the emotions of your audience. Good Luck! DT3 |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
DT3
Good points and I will take them all in. You are right I really do want to stir the emotions of my audience. That is why I am asking questions! Ray |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
You might want to read Chuck Hickock's book, Mentalism Incorporated, for a very detailed look at how one professional mentalist routines his show. You might not agree with his ideas, but it could be a jumping off point for you.
I would also recommend Ken Weber's fine Maximum Entertainment. Best of luck, Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-03-21 19:45, landmark wrote: Couldn't do better with this book if you want your question answered. My motivational show follows Chuck's ideas and philosophy. I am way ahead of where I wanted to be because of this book. And, Mentalism Inc 2, too. John |
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lostpoet Special user 610 Posts |
I have to agree with reading Chucks book also. It’s laid out and explained very well. Most of the advice I would give you is pretty much covered in this book. It’s logical and will give you many points on how to make each effect more entertaining.
Don’t think twice about this one its well worth reading. |
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-03-21 15:52, Don Theo III wrote: This is good advice. Think of it like a 'concept album'. Create a story and use your medium to communicate that story. It does not have to be literal, it could just be the feel of the effect (song) that can be interpreted as another element of the story. You can have ‘flashbacks’ so for example if your building up the impossibility with each subsequent effect, do a seemingly simple one that requires different skills that sets up the premise for the next effect. You may have a few effect (songs) you want to put in that may not fit but with a bit of re-jigging, it can work.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
PsychoMagi and DT3
You both have what seems like very good advice..a 'concept album'. I like that concept. A play with effects stressing the mood and feel of what I want to create. Yea, I like that. I have Chuck Hickock's first book. I have only looked through it and not really read it yet. Seems to be greared toward walk around. I am after a platform/stage program. Ray |
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phil in KC Regular user 199 Posts |
Hi, Ray!
Richard Osterlind recommends Tarbell's structure -- I don't have the details in front of me, but it's a five act structure based on vaudeville. Chuck Hickok's Mentalism, Inc. is not for walk around -- this is his corporate show, definitely a platform act. His chapter on his guidelines is pure gold. I have to tell you that I'm struggling with putting an act together myself. At a recent performance one of my mentors advised me to vary the "speed" of my effects more -- not the clock time, per se, but the pace and energy. My effects were all at about the same pace, he said, and that lulls the audience instead of alerting them with changes in pace. I had never thought of this before, and I'm not quite sure how I'll incorporate this into my act. In fact, in reviewing shows by Maven (Nothing) and Cassidy (Mental Miracles), I didn't sense much change of pace in their acts, either. Maybe I'm just not sensitive enough to this aspect, yet. Good luck in your efforts, Ray -- I'm sure you'll get there! -Phil in KC |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Phil in KC,
Tarbell's structure is good. I have them wrtitten down somewhere. Pace and energy is a BIG part of any show. Read "maximum entertainment" by ken weber. It will tell you much about this. I have NEVER seen a full show of Mentalism and I just wondered what the feel is. I have friends who are magicians and do not know ANYONE who is into mentalism. So I am alone here! LOL It is a good thing that I can always stop by the Magic Café for Coffee and talk to others who share the same type of ideas as I do. Best Ray |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Having a plan gives you much more than a plan. It gives you something specific to improve and perfect.
I script things to death. (Tony Slydini training sticks!) Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Alexander Marsh Inner circle England 1191 Posts |
Osterlind, I think has posted the structure of his show on this forum. Have a search, see if you can find it.
Cassidy, I seem remember published how he structures a show. I think - but not sure - it is in the elemental series. He explained how starting with a, say, 30 min act and that being the back bone of your show you can add effects that complement the others to lengthen it, and take out some of the minor miracles to shorten it. The main advice would be to, start strong and end stronger! I’m not a big fan of the WAM-BAM opening effects that are over before they have finished. There are other ways to engage an audience from the beginning. If you want to think of it from a more theatrical point of view try this. Imagine you have a 45 min show. Break it up in to three 15 min scenes. Scene 1; is a series of ‘simpler’ effects that get the whole audience involved and tells them what it is that you do, or what mentalism is. The last effect of this scene could be one with a kicker ending that makes people suddenly think…. Well, whatever you want them to. “This guy is good!” or “I wasn’t expecting that, what else has he got to show us!” Scene 2; I would personally put an effect like Annemann’s 4th Dimensional Telepathy (3 Envelope Test) here. This will wake up the 15 mins and take every one deeper in to the concept of you as a Mind Reader and will involve only a few members of the audience up on stage. Scene 3; The finals 15 min scene maybe you can change tact. Display another one of your mental skills, for example a super memory. Begin with a book test, reveal the word then reveal that that only looked like mind reading, in fact you memorized the whole book! And move in to another grand scale memory test that has a big kicker ending that knocks the audience for six! Perhaps you “got so good I can predict what will be named before the show even began!” Just an idea.
My stuff: AlexanderMarshMentalism.co.uk
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Malchat Special user The Kingdom of Croiset and Wonder 885 Posts |
This is such a complicated subject that's hard to do it justice in a forum post. I believe that routining is what really separates the stars from the rest of us; it's one thing to perform good effects, quite another to turn effects into good theater.
I also honestly believe this is very hard to figure out on your own... many of us need the critcal eye of an outside expert (director, dramaturg, etc.) to figure this out. It's difficult to be your own director. Here are three ways you can structure your act - the list is not exhaustive, but it's a start: Routining by Theme: What's the common thread between your effects and how do you tie them into each other? Are you consistent with your themes? If not, why not? Routining by Internal Character Arc: What's the 'arc' of your stage personality... e.g. does he get more excited as things progress, more introspective, or more outgoing? Does performing the miracles affect him (e.g. getting tired or giddy)? In other words, how does your character feel at the start and at the end? Routining by External Character Arc: How do you want your audience to feel about your stage persona when you walk on and how do you want these feeling to develop? Do you want their opinion to change over the course of the act or simply be confirmed? When you answer the questions above, figure out where the turning points are, where something changes... those turning points are what really creates the 'beats' in your act, and they may not be aligned perfectly with the start and end of each trick. Most audience members will be hard-pressed to recall each invividual effect afterwards, but they will usually remember the turning points.
“You are what you pretend to be.”
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
I just want to thank all who have posted here. Scripting a show is VERY imported to me. It is the different between a half-baked program and one that totally looks, feels, and IS professional.
I have been in front of people long enough to realize that a great entertaining show is one that has been Script, blocked, and rehearsed. Every one of you guys has given me food for thought. I am pleased to be a member of the Café when I see people helping out. Helping each other only makes us all stronger and better performers. Best Ray |
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Piers Inner circle A Limited Edition of 1394 Posts |
I've been scripting too ...
I include props list, preparation, pre-show activities, patter, floor plan ... Piers. www.justgiving.com/piers-cancer-fund www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-2 www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-3 Finished my 4 months of Chemotherapy in 2009. 3 monthly checks since... and into 2021! As seen on the QE2 and QM2. Author of Salem's Cornucopia - SUC Book |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Yes, there is much in preparing a show!
Ray |
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psi-co Regular user South Africa 134 Posts |
Ray, you've got mail
Ciao Alan |
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Alan,
WOW, Now that is MAIL! Thank you for that attachment! It sure got me thinking about Scripting a show! Thank You! Ray |
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Harlequins Dream New user Cadiz, Spain 5 Posts |
Hello,
I do not have as many advices as other members have here. I am just starting to make my own show for mentalism and so I am dealing with same problem as you are. What has really helped me in understanding routining in terms of dynamics, flows, interactions, and everything is a show I rencently saw at my friends house, Derren Brown's The Coming of the Wicked. I would say that if you can copy him in terms of show, then you will have amazing script. Do not mistake my words, I do not say to copy his way of performing or his tricks. I mean that if you watch the show you will see how it is like a great experiment and he is the mad scholar who get more excited and crazy as the show moves. It starts off with a sort of bang and then slows down and then goes faster and so on. Watch the show and look at the presentation aspects from a performer's point of view. I have seen many mentalist shows and this is the best one ever. Once again, do not think I say to copy what he does to entertain. But use his ideas on how to achieve that entertainment. I say this because I see many people misunderstand other people here online and I may also be easily misunderstood because of my unwell English. Melaquiades de Agadez
Live everyday as if it is your last, and one day you will surely be correct.
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Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
Melaquiades de Agadez,
We know what you meant when you say do not copy his act. Your English is very good. I have never seen Darren Brown perform so I have no idea what his shows are like. Maybe one day I will be able to see one of his shows. Best Ray |
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