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docz
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Ok, after diving into books and dvd's I've completed a week of practising the Elmsley Count. I made a video, for you guys to watch, and let me know how it's comming along. Yes the video quality stinks, I still have my sucky webcam, without sound. So I made some "patter" in the form of text appearing in the video.. Maybe you guys have some idea on a "theme" for the patter? Like gambling or poker oriented.

Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoLH5RFqZwI

I've put off "Jazz Aces" and I'm trying to learn "Twisting the Aces" instead. Since it utilises only the elmsley count, I can't get that Jordan Count... it's a different rhythm, so switching elmsley, jordan, elmsley, jordan and so on, is a little difficult at this point, but I'm still practising Smile Any tips on the Jordan Count, would be much appreciated.

Doc-Z
Wes65
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I do the finger tip counts so Jordan is almost the same as elmsley to me. The good thing about the Jordan is you don't have to move the card to set it up for another elmsley.

Also the finger tip count is not as unnatural as some people think.
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docz
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The thing I'm strugling with is that when doing the Jordan count, after I steal the first card, when I push over the double, I tend to steal the second card aswell, giving a five count instead of a four. And then I end up in Jordan Count position, and not in Elmsley... It's hard not to steal the second card, because the first steal card ends up sandwiched between the second card and the double...
I'm probably doing it wrong..

Doc-Z
Robert Apodaca
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Although between the fingers Elmsly count may be good for Twisting the Aces, it could look suspicious to a laymen. I get a break under the first car and use my whole left hand to take the cards.

Also to add to your routine you can take the last card and instead of putting it on top you can put it on the bottom and that way the Joker maintains it's original place
spycrapper
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Quote:
On 2007-03-22 21:22, docz wrote:
The thing I'm strugling with is that when doing the Jordan count, after I steal the first card, when I push over the double, I tend to steal the second card aswell, giving a five count instead of a four. And then I end up in Jordan Count position, and not in Elmsley... It's hard not to steal the second card, because the first steal card ends up sandwiched between the second card and the double...
I'm probably doing it wrong..

Doc-Z


are you doing the Jordan count? as far as I remember the Jordan count doesn't need to steal any card (or maybe only the last, if that could be mentioned as 'steal')
I learned Jordan count from CC, but I don't use it regularly so I maybe wrong

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spycrapper
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Umm sorry I haven't seen the video, I just commenting on Jordan count
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DStachowiak
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Doc, I thought your count looked fine in the video. A great source for learning the counts is Jerry Mentzer's "Counts Cuts Moves and Subtlety", It's a little paperback I recommend very highly. I think every card man should have a copy.
It came out 30 years ago, but it's still in print, about $9 or $10 and very available.
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Nedim
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Hi,

I watched your video. I love using Elmsley Count in my Twisting Ace routine. Because for my opinion if you use it itself, its not a trick. You should use it in a rotine. But I like the way you did. With much practice you will be better at it.

Also when you become professional on it, you can learn Combo Count. Its a variation of it.

magicially yours,


Nedim Guzel
Wes65
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I give a second to DStachowiak's suggestion. "Counts Cuts Moves and Subtlety" is a resource you will go to very ofter through out the years.
Wes
docz
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I'll check that book out if I can find it... Smile Thanks for all your comments guys!

Doc-Z
docz
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Just to be clear...

When I do the Jordan Count I have the cards with the "hidden" card fourth from the top. I do one card, steal that card while I count off another, then do the double, and then the last card. Is that wrong? It makes sense if it's wrong, because it feels... em.. not right if you know what I mean. The Elmsly feels natural...

Doc-Z
Dave V
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I learned it as Single, Single, return both the cards to the bottom and retain bottom card as I push off three, and then another single. Make sense to you?
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Wes65
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Doc-Z'

Dave is correct, you are trying to retain (steal) the card too early.
Wes
docz
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Hm.. I get it, but that last steal seems a bit unatural when there are no cards left on the right... I guess I should practise some more... Thanks for the correction!

Doc-Z
Wes65
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It depends on how many cards you have. If you only have four cards you are stealing the card when you have two left so it leaves you with one. So if you are doing the Jordan with a pack of four you start with four in the left, then three, then two and after the steal you have one. In that case it is very natural.

However, the more cards you use the less natural it looks. You really have to keep the pack square with a larger number.
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spycrapper
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A agree with Dave, that's the Jordan count I remember. single, single, steal bottom (push off 3 top cards) and single again
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Loual4
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Hi Doc-z!!

I watched your video, and here are my comments: First, you are doing the "move" very nicely, no tell tales of the steal. That's good!
Now for the part that annoys me a little bit. When you start your count, you start with all cards in the left hand, take out the bottom cards and then put the "three remaining" cards on top. Personally, I would prefer if you started with all cards in the right hand, and then count off the four cards in the left ( 1, 2+steal, 3,4) ... It is not a very big difference, maybe just a little bit of timing to accentuate the fact that the cards are moving from the right hand to the left hand... but in my opinion it makes more of a visual impact to the audience.

Well, at least that is my opinion... Good work!

Have a nice day,

Louis Jutras
Wes65
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We always have to work on eliminating unmotivated moves. I work mostly with coins so I'll use that as an example. Say I have a coin in my right and two in my left and I need to put all three in my left so I can do a false put back to the right. I then have to give audience a reason for putting the coins all in the left. For example I might put them in them all in my right first to let the people on my right get a good look at them and then put them in my left and give the people on my left a good look or put them all in one hand then the other to push my sleeves up.

If you are moving a card the audience will assume that it is necessary for you to do that to accomplish the effect unless you give them a reason for the move, hide the move or eliminate the move. In your case the Jordan count would eliminate the moving of the card.
Wes
Dave V
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The beauty of both Elmsley and Jordan counts is that at any given time you have exactly as many cards in each hand as you should. If you don't have that condition after each "count" you're still doing something wrong.
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docz
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Thank you again for all your input. The reason I start with the cards in my left hand is, that's what the tutorial on my DVD said I should do. Since it supposedly was easier, and more natural, to thumb off the first card with the left hand. Usually I like to experiment with things to seek different solutions, but when it comes to magic, it's so new to me, and I have practically no experience with it, so it's hard for me to experiment like I'm used to. Maybe that is wrong? For instance, I've always shuffled decks into my right hand, and used my left hand for dealing cards. But after reading the first pages of CC I learned that it was wrong, and it should be the other way arround. So I started doing everything as instructed from the various sources. Is that wrong? Is it better to do what feels natural to me? or should I press on to learn the proper technique? I guess I should experiment a bit... maybe I'll post more videos, and nag you guys some more Smile

Doc-Z
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