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abc
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South African in Taiwan
1081 Posts

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Quote:
On 2007-04-02 11:45, Mark Wilden wrote:
I'm not a pro, and never will be. And I'm not criticizing anyone, here. But I do find it depressing that to be magician it would be necessary to hawk liquor and burgers. I feel much the same way about the fake glitz of Las Vegas.

In our loftier moments, we call magic an "art." But how many other "artists" spend as much time shilling as professional magicians?

Again, in an effort to deflect the flames, I'll say that I don't fault any pros for this. I know everyone can't be a Ricky Jay. I also know that it has ever been thus. And that all art (certainly all performing art) ultimately has its eye on the box office. But geez, pro magicians certainly seem to spend more of their time making the suits happy than, say, your average clarinet player.

I agree but artists often get so caught up in the "art" that they produce substandard art and defend it by saying that the population do not apprecaite it. If art is not aprreciated as art then how is it art. Kids can draw stupid pictures on a piece of paper but there is only one Picasso. There is a reason for that.
The average clarinet player is just that. Average. Artists shouldn't go for average. They should go for exceptional. When you pull of a night where you double sales because of your art then you can call yourself an artist or when you win a real magic competition where great magicians compete. What is the point of magic if people do not enjoy and want to see it and be willing to pay money to see it? Art is when people think it is great and not when the creator thinks it is great and everyone else thinks it is terrible and good magic can increase sales in a restaurant and has done so for a long time.
Greatness brings money but good sales people make moeny out of selling not performing like I said in the beginning of my post. All I have learned from you is that you are not the kind of magician I detest and that is good. There is no need to go pr if you don't feel like it but many pro's do great things for magic.
Mark Wilden
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San Francisco
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Quote:
On 2007-04-02 11:56, FreefallFool wrote:
I see your point but I think if it allows you to perform then there's nothing wrong with keeping the management happy. After all, the way I see it, is that if you can demonstrate an increase in revenue then you have a valid argument for increasing your cut.

I agree, but I just think it's a little sad what pro magicians have to do just to be given the chance to perform their art and entertain people in a way no other art can.

///ark
Mark Wilden
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Quote:
On 2007-04-02 13:44, abc wrote:
I agree but artists often get so caught up in the "art" that they produce substandard art and defend it by saying that the population do not appreciate it. If art is not appreciated as art then how is it art.

I'm right with you on that, abc. I was just trying to compare our art with other expressions (and how the practitioners manage to practition).

Quote:
The average clarinet player is just that. Average.

Of course, I was talking about the average professional clarinetist, who is going to be one of the top few thousand players in the world, considering how hard it is to get a job as a clarinetist!

Quote:
What is the point of magic if people do not enjoy and want to see it and be willing to pay money to see it?

Again, I completely agree. But many other artists are paid for their performances, not for increasing alcohol consumption. Again, I'm not saying that's wrong - just that pro magicians do seem to have to do things that other professional artists don't have to.

Quote:
All I have learned from you is that you are not the kind of magician I detest and that is good.

Why, that's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me... Smile

Quote:
There is no need to go pr if you don't feel like it but many pro's do great things for magic.

You're right, abc. I think we actually are mainly in agreement, in fact.

//ark
FreefallFool
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I'm impressed... Knowing the way these forums can go I wasn't expecting that! Fair play to you guys.

I'd love to just be given a metaphorical stage without all the business end of things but I'm not sure that's possible. If my preparation involves revenue generating ideas as well as honing my routine then so be it.

Musicians do affect revenue since a band with a following will pack out a venue, albeit a local pub, thereby increasing sales. If I could guarantee to fill the function suite then I'm sure I could just perform my act, take my fee, and leave it at that. Until then???
Smile It's not how far you fall, it's how you land... Smile
abc
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South African in Taiwan
1081 Posts

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Quote:
On 2007-04-02 23:08, Mark Wilden wrote:
Quote:
The average clarinet player is just that. Average.

Of course, I was talking about the average professional clarinetist, who is going to be one of the top few thousand players in the world, considering how hard it is to get a job as a clarinetist!

Quote:
What is the point of magic if people do not enjoy and want to see it and be willing to pay money to see it?

Again, I completely agree. But many other artists are paid for their performances, not for increasing alcohol consumption. Again, I'm not saying that's wrong - just that pro magicians do seem to have to do things that other professional artists don't have to.

//ark

OK. I misunderstood your point about the Clarinet player. In contrast to that I would like to say that magicians are privileged in the fact that firstly, it is easier for them to get work and secondly they can and should tailor their performances to meet the needs of customers.
As for selling alcohol as opposed to doing magic, like you said, we agree. I just think it is important to look at what works where, and the more value you add to your client's business or event the more likely it is that youwill have repeat business. I worked a restaurant for four years every weekend and paid my Uni studies and a car out of it as well as had a fairly good life. I mentioned that restaurant inmy posts above (500 envelopes) and the owner is now one of my best friends. Both of us added value to each other's lives and businesses and my point is that you should try and achieve that for your own benefit. It supplies you with a platform to show your art. Many other artists do not have that benefit and we should use it.
I agree with you though that tailoring our art and butchering our art are two completely different things.
I am still on edge to hear what happened with the gig.
Mark Wilden
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Quote:
On 2007-04-03 00:49, abc wrote:
I worked a restaurant for four years every weekend and paid my Uni studies and a car out of it as well as had a fairly good life. I mentioned that restaurant inmy posts above (500 envelopes) and the owner is now one of my best friends. Both of us added value to each other's lives and businesses and my point is that you should try and achieve that for your own benefit. It supplies you with a platform to show your art. Many other artists do not have that benefit and we should use it.

Actually, I never thought about that. Makes a lot of sense.

I should mention in my turn that my best friend at work performed as a full-time table-hopper for ten years, so hopefully I'm not just talking out of my hat.

Quote:
I am still on edge to hear what happened with the gig.

Me too.

///ark
FreefallFool
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Abc, it's only been a day! *grins* I think I need to follow your advice and sort out a more considered package to offer him. Don't hold your breath, I'd hate to be responsible for you turnig blue!!!

This is something I am determined to do and I think the better prepared I am all round, the more successful I will be.

Thanks for your support, it's much appreciated...
Smile It's not how far you fall, it's how you land... Smile
FreefallFool
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You too Mark, thanks. Nothing like putting myself under pressure... Ha Ha!
Smile It's not how far you fall, it's how you land... Smile
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