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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Thank you Mr. Harbottle, wherever you are!
Well, my second "real" performance did not go nearly as good as the first at the local pub. I had my first run in with a half loaded obnoxius heckler spectator. He questioned almost every move I made to the point of being obnoxious. I told him, more than once, to just let me do the routine without interruption, so those who were watching could enjoy. However, he made remarks like, "He must have another coin in his hands" or "Those are fake coins" and more, more, more, throughout a big part of the performance. He knew nothing! He was half loaded and was just simply guessing and trying, I believe, intentionally to mess me up. First I performed "Four Coins Your Hands" by Dan Watkins and then a version of "CoinOne" again with Rannie's "Invisible Muscle Pass", by request from some guys who wanted to see it again from last week. All the while being heckled by this obnoxious spectator, but I continued on, regardless of the wise guy. Depite this wise guys actions everything did go well. Next I performed a routine which is a mixture of David Roth's "Copper/Silver Transpositon" and Kainoa Harbottle's "J.W.Grip Spellbound". The way it works is I use the J.W. Grip for the coin switches as per methods used in Kainoa's "Cointopia" and then finish with the in the spectators hand coin switch using David Roth's method from his "Copper/Silver Transpositon" routine on his "Ultimate Coin Magic" DVD. Well, when I performed the coin switches using the J.W. Grip from Mr. Harbottle's book, I did it right in the face of the abusive spectator! Even he was amazed, he was taken back and it shut him up for the remainder of the performance! He was blown away by the coin transpositions I did using the J. W. Grip! He said "Wow, now that is magic!", Thank you Mr. Harbottle, you saved me from a lot of mental anguish!! Who would have believed it?..... I finished with David Roth's "Hanging Coins" using silver dollars and didn't hear a peep from the heckler as he watched on. I had a wall at my back for this routine, so the angles weren't a problem and everything went very well. The heckler was put in his place and I owe Mr. Harbottle one, because of that! What I would like to know is if there are any suggestions on handling a wise guy like that from you gentlemen who perform all the time. I am sure you must have run into situations such as this, since it only took me two performances to run into it myself. I got lucky with the J.W. Grip and I won't forget that, that is for sure, but I don't know if I will be that lucky next time.
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
There's plenty to say about audience managment but this (coin threads) is simply not the best place.
Same as "audience memory of a routine"... way off topic. BTW, when they say "fake hands"... it's a great time agree to do a bit where you pretend to pull off a finger or similar effect. The rest of the audience knows you are joking and they can now safely laugh at the heckler. For more and better on this subject, let's move this elsewhere and maybe working pros like Whit and Bill will join in.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Larry Barnowsky Inner circle Cooperstown, NY where bats are made from 4770 Posts |
Performing for drunks can be a nightmare. I think the best strategy is to get the crowd on your side so they can help shut him down. That's all part of audience management which comes with experience. Darwin Ortiz recommends ignoring them. I think that's hard to do in every circumstance. Sounds like you got the best of him.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
In my youth I thought it was my job to get the heckler or person that was not into to become a "Harris fan". Today I concentrate on those that are into it.
Coin magic can be entertaining and have wow factor.... Speaking of Harbottle...I like his production of the coin from the thumb off position. Thanks to "Special K" Just my two liberty half dollars worth.. Harris "with smaller ego" Deutsch
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
Kainoa Elite user NewArk, Delaware 424 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-13 10:19, Fingers wrote: Of course, for all you know, your heckler's buzz could have been moving from the grumpy stage to the happy stage. I've very glad to hear that that change helped the situation. It's always good to have something very clean in your repetoire that you can use to get the obnoxious on your side and/or convert them, as it sounds like you did. Curtis also has some nice work on this with his "Coercive Purse" routine that I've used to quell the savage beasts. I'm looking forward to hearing what some other workers have (had) to say on the subject, here or wherever.... |
magicman899 Special user 506 Posts |
Fingers good job managing the heckler.
What book did the JW grip come out of? Coins on Edge? |
jimmyj Veteran user 343 Posts |
Hello Fingers,
Glad to hear about your enthusiam, improvement and continued love of this great world of coin magic. It's very intriguing and rewarding. I've been involved with this brand of magic for 3 and a half years. However, I do agree with Jonathan's comments above. Take care and good luck. Jim. |
Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Well you know all those routines that are really clean, but good only for one-on-one? Now you know what they're good for. Joe Rindfleish has a good one for this situation. One guy will have no idea where the coin went, the rest will be laughing.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Thanks Mr. Townsend, I can always count on you to point me in the right direction. I like the "fake hands" way of thinking, interesting way to go.
It was pretty much of a nightmare and very frustrating Mr. Barnowsky. I don't think the ignore factor would have worked much here. I think anyone there would have said the guy was way out of line. I knew I had to manage the audience, but I wasn't quite counting on this happening..... You make a great point Harris, thanks! You may be right about the heckler Mr. Harbottle, but I would rather think it was your fine instruction, that was responsible for doing him in. When I performed that sequence right in his face, I tell you, you could see his eyes bulge out. I must have caught him at just the right moment or something. Anyway, you didn't tell me about the strong effects your form of magic has on the human body, you know converting hecklers into "mush". You may need to affix a surgeon generals warning to your books and DVD's.....! Hi Michael(magicman899), no the J.W. Grip is in Mr. Harbottle's "Cointopia" book, the "J.W. Grip Spellbound" routine was where I received my instruction. Its not that all that difficult to do and it is very effective! This particular book has some amazing sleights like the "Mutobe Palm" and the "Fingertip Muscle Pass", to name a few, besides the "J.W. Grip", I totally recommend it. The book will give you a lot of hard work to do for a long time, at least that is the way it is going to be for me, but at the same time I am sure it will be very satisfying when you can conquer its contents. As an aside, it seems the book also has the effects of squashing or crushing hecklers to a pulp when performing, ha..... Thanks for your support Jim and I wish you the best of luck with "your" magic work. You have been doing this more than twice as long as me, so please hang around I am sure there will be times where I may need your assistance..... Thanks for your input Mr. Kam! I am going to have to check out some of Mr. Rindfleish's works, I only here good things about him and you for that matter..... Well, I will tell you guys, this performing in front of "actual people" can be a real daunting experience at times. I think I have encountered a whole new phase in the art of coin magic. Everything goes so smooth during practice, yes you drop coins and screw up from time to time, but at least the coins don't talk back! In just two "real" performances I think I have witnessed both ends of the spectrum. The first performance went beautifully, I could do no wrong, it was a very good way to begin, luckily for me. It showed me how great a feeling you could have "inside" when a little luck is on your side in putting a smile on your audience faces and injecting some excitment in their lives. The second performance really tested me in the area of audience management and gave me a taste of how really tough performing before an audience could get. When this performing started my biggest worry, at least I thought, was screwing up or dropping a coin or exposing a gaff, you know, something on that order. To my surprise, my practicing really paid off and I was able to meet the challenge pretty well, even considering hecklers, with a bit of luck thrown in there. I would just like to thank everyone here at the Café, because you have all been very instumental in my preparation to go and meet the outside world with my newly acquired knowledge. From the learning and practicing to the performing end this art of coin magic is a very tough business indeed! I give you all here at the Café the greatest respect and thanks for helping me to get past all the pitfalls in the past and I am sure you will help me to get through any of the pitfalls in the future. I know I couldn't have done it without your help, thanks again.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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magicman899 Special user 506 Posts |
Thanks Fingers! I'll have to look into the cointopia book. I'm currently trading for a copy of Coins on edge. I'm excited! Good luck on your next performance.
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Both books are great Michael(magicman899), but be prepared to do some serious practicing! However, you will learn to produce some very mind blowing magic as your reward.
Right now I have to do a lot of thinking in the area of audience management. It seems audience management can be as difficult at times as some of the toughest sleights or routines. Until now all my efforts were centered at developing a good foundation for doing my coin magic and learning various routines, but now that I have elected to go a step further and actually perform I will have to make sure I can manage and control my audience. This last episode in performing has opened my eyes to a lot of things I have yet to learn. I am not sure quite how to go about learning good audience control. Is it all just experience? Am I making too much of this? Was it just one tough evening? Is there some kind of book or course with emphasis in this particular area? These are the questions going through my head at the moment. Any help in finding the answers would be greatly appreciated.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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jimmyj Veteran user 343 Posts |
Fingers,
I, like you, am a hobbyist and amateur. As I may have mentioned, I've been involved with coin magic about 4 years, maybe longer, and that's nothing compared to some of the folks here at the Café. Also like you, I perform at various small events and bars/pubs, for free of course, to work on my chops. The folks at pubs can be one difficult bunch, especially if you let them see you sweat. Some will be gracious and appreciative, others will be looking for the jugular, to either trip you up, make you look stupid and make themselves feel superior. Some don't want to be bothered, with you, or your "silly coin magic stuff" It comes with the pub/bar territory. If you want to perform at these venues, you'll have to grow a thick skin. You'll mess up, it's inevitable. Pick your groups wisely. Sit down, look around and graciously don't let yourself be rushed into anything. If you smell a rat at the other end of the pub, don't perform, or, have a beer and open with something that is bullet-proof. Just one routine and then politely sit down. My examples of audience management come from Gary Kurtz, although there's probably more I'm not at this time aware of. One comes from some literature he wrote called Misdirection and Direction, and another is a segment on Let's get Flurious called Psychology. Gary's performing style may not be for everyone, but it sure cracks me up. Doug Brewer too. And a really good sense of humour goes a long way to tame the savages. Try not to take it so seriously, at least in front of the patrons. If you look and act relaxed, they'll relax. Take care and keep at it. Jim. |
Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Hey Jim, thank you very much! Your input really helps a lot. Actually I treat my coin magic very seriously, very seriously, but you would never know it if I would perform for you. In everything I do I inject humor, its just me. I haven't performed much in public at all, but the humor will be there, so I am glad you think that helps, because adding humor will be a no brainer for me, it just flows naturally. When I practice I am always thinking of ways to make the routines humorous with patter and my actions.
The points you bring out with your input makes a lot of sense. It gives me something to look for and be aware of. I have already noticed some of the things you have mentioned. I would also like to be more and appear more relaxed when I am performing. I am really new in the performing end of this art, so I probably don't look as relaxed as I would like to, hopefully that will come in time. I think your best advice here is to choose when to perform and maybe when "not" to perform. I agree it would be wise to observe the crowd first to check if performing may not be that good of an idea on a particular night if I sense there may be trouble with certain patrons.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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Fingers Inner circle Pennsylvania, USA 1330 Posts |
Hey Jim, thank you very much! Your input really helps a lot. Actually I treat my coin magic very seriously, very seriously, but you would never know it if I would perform for you. In everything I do I inject humor, its just me. I haven't performed much in public at all, but the humor will be there, so I am glad you think that helps, because adding humor will be a no brainer for me, it just flows naturally. When I practice I am always thinking of ways to make the routines humorous with patter and my actions.
The points you bring out with your input makes a lot of sense. It gives me something to look for and be aware of. I have already noticed some of the things you have mentioned. I would also like to be more and appear more relaxed when I am performing. I am really new in the performing end of this art, so I probably don't look as relaxed as I would like to, hopefully that will come in time. I think your best advice here is to choose when to perform and maybe when "not" to perform. I agree it would be wise to observe the crowd first to check if performing may not be that good of an idea on a particular night if I sense there may be trouble with certain patrons.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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