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Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-04-28 09:53, jlibby wrote:
OK, yes! We get it! It's a single trick instead of a book!

And yes! I know about reversed card plots! But so far, nobody has offered any evidence that No ID isn't a unique application of the reversed card plot.

I am appreciative James posted Max Maven's reply. I will look through my copy of the Encyclopedia of Card Magic later. If I find anything, I'll let you all know. Otherwise, I have nothing more to add to this thread.

See ya!
Joe L.


Do you own NO ID? If you don't, then either buy it so you know what you are talking about or stop posting nonsense about "unique applications"

I am not a disgruntled buyer. I didn't buy this and feel cheated. I was told in an email from Josh that this would be part of a book, I gave a review and then Josh released it as a single item.

I am voicing my opinion about the fact that I think it is not a good value. I don't care if it has been done before or if it is not credited or if George Bush invented it while he was snorting cocaine. If you would read the whole thread [I know it's hard] you would understand what the issue is really about.

James
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Michael Peterson
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The first trick in Mark Wilson's complete course in magic is the automatic card discovery.


Mike
Jim-Callahan
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I understand your position James.

And I think Josh offered a unique presentation.
That was my point.

Mike the effect in question is not really a discovery effect.

-Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Michael Peterson
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I realise that Jim, I just remembered that was the first trick I ever learned. A card is selected and found reversed in the deck. It was just a reference to a card reversal plot.


Thanx,
Mike
Roth
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I like books. If you have a lot of books people will think you're smart. You don't even have to read them.

It can be very impressive..having lots of books.

You don't want to have stacks of books though, because then people will think you're strange.

They should be on shelves.
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Bill Cushman
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If you have stacks of books AND stacks of money people will think you eccentric.
nboisen
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Jim, thanks for clarifying the "history" behind the event (email from Josh requesting review). That makes it clear why you are upset at the relatively high price for a single trick eBook relative to a slightly higher priced book filled with numerous usable ideas. I think Josh (ande all of us for that matter) can take a lesson from this on marketing and what NOT to do! Better to give freebees and create many satisfied friends and future customers than to make a quick buck on a one-off deal.

I own NO ID and agree that it is NOT as good as IBT or Back to the Future and contains FAR less detail and subtelties and NO additional ideas from other magicians (which is a highlight of IBT).

Nonetheless, I am happy to have parted with the ten bucks for 3 reasons:
1. I like the presentational twist (which can be used with other methods as well)
2. I will likely USE this effect (that's worth at least $10)
3. I got to participate in this unique discussion (priceless!!!)

The free market may resolve the issue of "Is it worth the money or not?" in the end, but the free market will NOT erase Jim's feeling of being duped (my word, not his) into writing a review for a supposed book, only to find it offered as a single trick eBook (which is the issue, I think).
Markymark
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The 'free market' usually uses fair advertising!
I mean we all know it's an art form what is so often left out or cleverly worded to appear fair.And with the internet it is easier to hype!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-04-29 05:25, Markymark wrote:
The 'free market' usually uses fair advertising!
I mean we all know it's an art form what is so often left out or cleverly worded to appear fair.And with the internet it is easier to hype!


There was no false advertising in the ad for NO ID.
It does what it says. No sleight of hand, in their hands.
The deck can not be borrowed or examined.
James
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Markymark
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Thank's James.I should have said that I was talking in general about the 'Free market' when it comes to magic products.I do not have 'No ID' but I do agree with
your comments.What I really want to see is Max Mavens version but then don't we
all!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Xiqual
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Quote:
On 2007-04-28 12:28, Jim-Callahan wrote:
I understand your position James.

And I think Josh offered a unique presentation.
That was my point.

Mike the effect in question is not really a discovery effect.

-Jim


Hi Jim,
Here is the presentaion from NO ID:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No ID
(Normal deck, Invisible Deck)
By Josh Zandman
Effect:

Shuffle a deck of cards and ask a participant to pick any card. Have her remove it and remember it. Now you lay the deck of cards on her hand and ask her to place her card back on top of the deck. She cuts the cards, burying her card into the middle of the deck.

¡§Now let¡¦s do this again, but this time only in your mind. In your mind, please find your card and take it out of the deck. Now take this card and turn it face up and put it back into the middle of the deck.¡¨

Finish by having her spread through the cards to find her chosen card now face up in the middle of the deck!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is no originality in this presentation.
Eddie Fields came up with the idea of saying he had an invisible deck and tossing it to the spectator. they would shuffle it and take one card out, turn it over and place the deck back in the box. This was the presentation for what is now known as
The invisible deck.

This whole thread is really beating a dead horse. I think Josh's only mistake, was rushing to publish without listening to people about the method being old and the presentaion being old too.

I know it was not intentional and I think Josh is a great guy. Creative and smart.
I do feel that $10 is a lot of money to waste on something that could be had from
The learned pig for free, or for the same price you could get Scarne on cards [an excellent book] which costs about $5 on Amazon.

You know that Walter Gibson has a version that uses any deck and is impromptu. You and the spectator each look at cards and then insert your cards into the others portion of the deck. Both the cards turn face up in the spectators hands and the deck can be goven to the spectator.

This trick and many more are in Scarne on cards.
James
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Jim-Callahan
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James,

I am still a magician and know of all the effects you write about.
In fact I have all of the books and methods made reference to in the thread.
(The Eddie Fields book I quite enjoy and think it has a lot of useful ideas for mentalists)

However I do disagree,

First you can borrow the deck.

The invisible deck is not a card reversal effect.

This as I see it is a different plot but that might also be in my opinion of the presentation and may not be what others see.
As is in evidence in this thread.

I get it that many are seeing it as a card trick and I am not.

And as such (A card trick) I can agree that presented as such your observations are correct.

In truth I am finding it interesting the differences in perception between magicians and mentalists.

For instance I used one of my mentalist presentations last night as a magician and presented it in that way. It did play well and will do it as part of my set from now on.

But it in no way had the impact that the other presentation does.

I guess I see this presentation the same way.
Seeing it in my mind as I would present it and that is not as a common location reversal.

It could be presented as such and I will also add that if I were doing just a location reversal I would and have used the Gibson effect.

My thoughts of the effect are no doubt based upon my own idease of performance and I admitt that was why I thought more should be added to the manuscript.
To really point out how good the presentation could and should be.

I also agree with you that this thread has gone on far to long.
Those who see it as a card trick will perform it as such and will not understand my position.

-Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
nboisen
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Jim, I agree with you.

I saw this effect as more than merely another card trick. I have tried it, playing up the "imagination" angle... mere thoughts effecting reality... and it played very well.

Also, it is far more straight forward than the Gibson effect (which I also use on occasion), as the entire deck is in the spectator's hands when she inserts her card face up and is never touched again by the magician.

But your point is well taken that if used/viewed as simply another version of a card reversal trick (yawn), you could be disappointed. But you would, in my humble opinion, be missing out on something. It's proper place is in a mentalism performance, not a card-manipulation show.

As for the price... well, I am planning on sending away for a book that got rave reviews in this forum that costs $40 and only contains 3 effects -- slightly more than $10 per effect. Will the effects be more innovative and the write-up more detailed? I don't know, not having seen it yet. But it's still works out to about the same price range.

But, agreed, enough said.
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