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gelbepfeife
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So what tricks do you perform for the clever man? What trick do you perform for him? If he is a persons where you definitely can't use a double lift and is always looking on your hands and is un-misdirectable? So I am talking about tricks which end definitely clean. What are your suggestions??
tommy
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Interesting question. Lennart Green mentions this sort of thing on one his DVDs. I think it was Fractal or something like that.. I am not that clever Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Pathian
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Dayton, OH
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Surprisingly, I find that a good self-working card trick can be the best when you are in fast company, this takes away their ability to burn you for sleights. One of my favorites is just to give the deck a riffle shuffle and a good (false) cut, handing the deck over, having them deal cards and then take chunks from anywhere in the deck, and having them deal the aces (you get the idea).
Cain
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I don't think a person who burns your hands is necessarily clever. Anyway, I think Simon Aronson's card tricks are well suited for a patient, intelligent audience. Prediction Shufflebored is self-working.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

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Ross W
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Quote:
On 2007-04-22 12:41, Pathian wrote:
Surprisingly, I find that a good self-working card trick can be the best when you are in fast company, this takes away their ability to burn you for sleights. One of my favorites is just to give the deck a riffle shuffle and a good (false) cut, handing the deck over, having them deal cards and then take chunks from anywhere in the deck, and having them deal the aces (you get the idea).


Umm...sorry Pathian, but I don't (get the idea)! it sounds like a good trick!
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Josh the Superfluous
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Use a good gimmicked trick, and when they guess correctly, lie. That's the only way I fooled my brother (46 patents).
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
Jaz
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Self-working and card tricks are a good option.

With good technique most sleights will be invisible even when you're being burned.
DL should look like a single no matter.
tommy
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I am not sure but I think Gelbepfeife, is not talking about fooling fast company but something that would appeal or impress the intellectuals, such profs and such like.

Tricks that make the magician appear to be super dooper intelligent perhaps.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
jalal12321
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A trick which is designed for this sort of person is "Hedberg's Peak", by Dan and Dave Buck. It's taught in their booklet "Sleightly Magical", which is available on their site. It rely's on the spectator second guessing what is going to happen.
Hansen
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I second the Simon Aronson recommendation.
If you want intelligent card magic (he's a retired lawyer!) then his books and DVDs are a veritable gold mine.
Also look into anything by Derren Brown (he studied law at university and then went on to become the most famous mentalist in the world - not too shabby, huh?). His card work can be found on the DVD "The Devil's Picturebook".
gelbepfeife
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I am talking about really eaysy to perform tricks, with easy and little slights, like galaxy(out of this world). maybe I think a force could do the job also(just act and make a big mind reading thing out of it, of course the clever spec shuffles before) but what would be the most unexpected, free-choice-looking force?? well maybe a good riffle force I think.

mfg
gelbepfeife
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I am talking about really easy to perform tricks, with easy and little sleights, like Galaxy (Out Of This World). Maybe I think a force could do the job also (just act and make a big mind reading thing out of it, of course the clever spectator shuffles before) but what would be the most unexpected, free-choice-looking force?? Well maybe a good riffle force I think.

mfg
RJ Hunt
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Check out any of the Karl Fulves books on Self-Working Magic Effects: One of my favorites is Self Working Number Magic. If they are smart the will enjoy the effect and they often find enjoyment in trying to figure it out...If they are "Smart Ass" and get their kicks from burning the performer, that is a whole other case study...But to be safe stick to the self working or simple effects...why bust out your skills and talent for some "Jack Hole"

Just my 2 cents...

Later & Out

RJ
Maestro
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Sometimes if you're really trying to fool somebody with an analytical mind, self-workers might not always be the way to go. While I'm sure there are lots of good ones out there, the only thing bad about self workers is the person often has all of the information they need to "reverse engineer" the effect, where as if a sleight or something extra is involved, they will not have all of the tools at their disposal, so reverse-engineering will be impossible.

I forget exactly what effect this was, but I was reading about self-worker in the Collected Almanac where a card was secretly taken away at the beginning, and then secretly added back in at the end. While the trick was self-working, it would only work using one card less than the total number apparently being used. Something like this might work pretty well.
BarryFernelius
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Sam Schwartz's effect Thot Echo might be just what you're looking for. It's an impossible location effect that looks very fair, and the method is subtle and beautiful. The best part of the effect is that performing it destroys the evidence that would be required to reverse engineer it!

The working of the effect requires no sleight of hand expertise, and you can learn how to do the trick in a short period of time. If you perform this effect with the proper attitude, you can make it into a miracle. I've fooled some fairly knowledgable people with this effect.

Thot Echo originally appeared in The Pallbearers Review, Vol. 9, No. 5, March 1974. Or you could find it in Roberto Giobbi's Card College, Volume 1 or Card College Light.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."

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erlandish
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There's a lot of different things you can do here.

Feints, feints and more feints.

Ask them questions. If their eyes don't leave the deck, consider a card-to-forehead or card-to-mouth type of routine.

Let them pick the card. Ask them to show it to everybody else. Get the dirty work done during that period.

Learn a good card force, one that you can get done and out of the way in a few seconds, and then spend the rest of the time focusing on presentation.

Get ready before he thinks the trick has even started. There are plenty of tricks where merely having a card with a matching back in your pocket or having the bottom card reversed is enough to get ahead on them.

Learn a good false shuffle and cut. Kill him with a prearranged trick.

Before the trick starts, get the guy used to interacting with you. Ask him questions, look him in the eye. Make it a pleasurable experience for him to acknowledge you. Not so much that he's going to try to steal the show and theorize about what you're doing. If he does this, stop doing tricks for him.

Remember that a spectator who is intently focused on you can sometimes be VERY easily misdirected, so long as the source of information appears important to the routine. A trick with multiple climaxes is great for this sort of thing, since each climax can serve as strong natural misdirection from the next phase.

And finally, don't let your ego interfere with this process if you can help it. If you're only doing this because you want to fool him, you might be doing it for the wrong reasons.
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msc455magic
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Anything with a memorized deck. Yet I haven't learned one!

Best,
msc455magic
wsduncan
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Quote:
On 2007-04-22 12:02, gelbepfeife wrote:
So what tricks do you perform for the clever man? what trick do you perform for him? if he is a persons where you definitely can't use a double lift and is always looking on your hands and is un-misdirectable? so I am talking about tricks which end definitely clean. what are your suggestions??

I regularly fool magicians (and laymen) with an effect that uses a quadruple lift. It doesn't matter is someone knows about a particular method as long as the trick in which is it used is correctly constructed.

If the trick isn't well constructed a clever person may guess the method even if they don't know about it to begin with. This is the weakness of newbie magicians: they assume a method (like the Houdini Color Change or the Double Lift) is a trick.

In a good trick, be it self-working or sleight dependent, the method is so well hidden even those who know about the base method are fooled. Ask anyone who has mastered the use of the thumbtip.

Happily, all you need to learn about how to tell a good trick from a crap trick (and how to create your own) is included in Darwin Ortiz's new book Designing Miracles.
S2000magician
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Look into Bannon's Wait Until Dark (Dear Mr. Fantasy). Lorayne's Calculated Risk (Close-Up Card Magic) is another good one, though calling it self-working might be a bit of a misnomer. Similarly for Aronson's Past, Present and Future (Simply Simon).
Shodan
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I am surrounded by analytical minds! My soon-to-be mother-in-law is a demon for spotting methods...as is my fiancee, my Dad and my best friend. Here's what I've made work for these kinds of people:

Bannon's Dead Reckoning
Ackerman's Self Working Quick Co-incidence
The 4 ace trick from David Williamson's "Dave 2" (forgotten the name of it!)
Lorayne Poker Deal

All of them are simple to do, kinda self workers. In many cases I think the method-spotters are able to reverse engineer things based on logical deduction; DL's are an easy enough conclusion to reach. However, the principles/moves involved in the above tricks are sufficiently complex/obscure to defy that kind of analysis.

Another thought to consider is to forget about fooling these people and focus on entertaining them instead. They actually get a kick out of watching you work if your technique is up to scratch (Like watching a skateboarder do tricks etc. I guess!). Meanwhile the person stood next to them is standing jaw agape questioning their own reality.

I have been working on a card trick that is a little different from my usual fare. It is a rapid sequence of surprises, changes, productions etc. that just keeps the audience on their toes the whole time. It's also full of moves which usually get spotted by the eagle-eyed, but because of the natural misdirection and pace of the routine, fly right by. It finishes with a very fair "spectator location" that concludes the madness very nicely.

Cheers,
David
"You don't go up to strangers with a stick and come at their head...introduce yourself first, then come at them with a stick." - David Williamson
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