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sohaib
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Lazy Man's Card Trick
opay
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Two Detective from card college Smile
best regards

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stoneunhinged
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I have a friend who, though clever enough, is not the most analytical person. Yet he has no appreciation for card tricks, because he says things like, "Well, obviously all you did was bring the card to the top" or "Well, obviously you switched my selected card for another". Of course, he did not see me bring the card to the top or switch his selected card for another, and he has no idea how I did it, but he remains unimpressed because he knows I did something.

He is the kind of person who is expecting real magic, and nothing else is going to impress him. Feints and double feints would be no solution. My solution with him is that I never show him card tricks. But if I were to try again, I would do something like Invisible Deck, so that there would be nothing for him to say as an excuse. But then, he would probably insist on seeing the deck.

Jeff
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-04-23 11:07, stoneunhinged wrote:
But if I were to try again, I would do something like Invisible Deck, so that there would be nothing for him to say as an excuse. But then, he would probably insist on seeing the deck.

Look into Michael Close's Invisible Deck using a regular deck.
Ross W
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Quote:
On 2007-04-23 11:07, stoneunhinged wrote:
I have a friend who, though clever enough, is not the most analytical person. Yet he has no appreciation for card tricks, because he says things like, "Well, obviously all you did was bring the card to the top" or "Well, obviously you switched my selected card for another". Of course, he did not see me bring the card to the top or switch his selected card for another, and he has no idea how I did it, but he remains unimpressed because he knows I did something.

He is the kind of person who is expecting real magic, and nothing else is going to impress him. Feints and double feints would be no solution. My solution with him is that I never show him card tricks. But if I were to try again, I would do something like Invisible Deck, so that there would be nothing for him to say as an excuse. But then, he would probably insist on seeing the deck.

Jeff

Tee-hee! This sounds exactly like my friend Chris, whom I have mentioned before. trouble is, the ID failed to impress him. He simply said, "I know how you did that: you turned it over when I wasn't looking!"

Check out "Predeckability" by Aldo Columbini. It's great for know-it-alls. however, I have to say that sometimes you just have to accept that there are some people (and I know a couple) who are virtually impregnable inasmuch as they are just too smart in a particular way. These people:
a) Know a little bit about magic, perhaps they have dabbled in the past, bought a book or two. They know just enough to be difficult!
b)burn your hands and be utterly un-misdirectable, rendering most sleights doubly difficult;
c) and they recognise when you haven't done anything, as in a self-worker, and are thus unimpressed because what you did required "no skill".

*** them!
Author.
Twitter: @rosswelford
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S2000magician
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More to the point, these people are compelled to conjure up (pun intended) some explanation for every effect they see, irrespective of how asinine that explanation is. You cannot impress them with card magic - or, frequently, any other type of magic - because they won't allow themselves to view it as anything other than a puzzle to solve, and because they always believe the first solution they can imagine.
Carlos the Great
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Quote:
On 2007-04-23 16:51, ross welford wrote:
...
Check out "Predeckability" by Aldo Columbini. It's great for know-it-alls.

Quote:
On 2007-04-23 02:12, S2000magician wrote:
Look into Bannon's Wait Until Dark (Dear Mr. Fantasy). ...

Before I start, I have adavanced degrees in biology and business, work in biotechnology (cancer research) with some of the smartest people in the world, and have performed at company events for the same. As such, I think that I have a informed opinion on this topic.

Wait Until Dark is Bannon's take on Aldo Colombini's "Pre-Deck-Ability" so I agree with both of you. With that being said...

I have a problem with the question itself, though. By trying to find tricks that will fool "clever persons", you are moving away from magic and instead, into presenting puzzles. The recommendations of self-working tricks, IN MY OPINION ONLY, is the exact worst thing to do. I would expect people that take that point of view run into people that they are certain they can never fool. While I am not saying that you can fool everybody all the time, the number of people who can figure "everything" out is, in my opinion, maybe 1/10 or 1/100 of what most people suspect.

Effects that have destroyed people here at work:
Galaxy (OOTW variation from P. Harris)

Variations of an effect something like "Against All Odds" from Cardshark (learned my trick before I got Cardshark but the basic idea is the same. I use four aces, one is a prediction, once is forced, and it is placed in the deck in between the others by the spectator)

Variations of Feedback Loop (Jim Callahan)

Kirigami (with letter reveal from Psychological Subtleties) from Maven's Prism

Crazy Man's Handcuffs

Bannon's Poker thing from (can't remember...?) Smoke & Mirrors?

Here are particular killers that have worked at several companies:

Invisible Deck (gaff deck)
Clip Line Deluxe (they love this one)
Shuffling Lesson (from Art of Astonishment series)
Clock O'Doom from Smoke & Mirrors

Personally, I find it exceedingly easy to fool geniuses. Maybe it is because I share a background or something but I feel that I know the conditions that need to be met in order to really fool them. As such, the killer of all killers is the aforementioned Shuffling Lesson. It has never failed to blow their minds in the 8 years I have been doing it for scientists.

But that is just me.

-Carlos
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S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-04-23 18:40, Carlos the Great wrote:
I have a problem with the question itself, though. By trying to find tricks that will fool "clever persons", you are moving away from magic and instead, into presenting puzzles.

Note that the question wasn't "What effects will fool clever people?", it was, rather, "What effects would you perform for clever people?"

Choosing effects that involve no sleight of hand avoids the specific situation the original poster posed: someone who burns your hands and will chalk up the entire effect to some minor fidget whether they catch an actual sleight or not.

Choosing an effect such as Wait Until Dark (or, as others have suggested, Lazy Man's Card Trick or Dead Reckoning) has the added advantage that the result doesn't appear to have been a foregone conclusion from the outset. (One of the reasons I wouldn't use Predeckability is just that: it appears that the magician knew the outcome before the effect started.)

There are, indeed, some extremely intelligent people who enjoy magic of all sorts. (Like you, I have a lot of education - BA in Business, BA and MA in Mathematics, CFA - and have performed for many brilliant people in the engineering, mathematics, finance, and medical fields with great success.) Alas, there are other people of varying degrees of intelligence who cannot enjoy magic of any sort; they must have some sort of explanation for any effect they see. (I have a dear friend who is like this: no matter what I or any other magician shows her, she always "knows" exactly how it is done; that her explanation is inaccurate is moot.)

All that said, I believe that sleight-light effects - using, as another example, a memorized deck - will give one the best play for the type of individual the original poster cited. If they don't work, move to the next table. (They're probably better tippers over there anyway.)
Irishghost
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Invis deck or Bizzare twist
I get to gaff some cool stuff for some cool people
Shufton
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"That's it" by Eddie Fechter is a good example of a trick to do for wise-guys. As they watch, they think they caught you out, but then the hose gets turned on them... in a nice way. After, they may behave.
Fobulous, Emergency Cash, 3D Paradox, PS-I Love You, X-Ray, The Portal, Ultimate Floating Match, Miracle Premonition... and more!
http://www.shufton.com
tntjr
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Intelligent people are like anyone else. If you entertain them, and don't present it as a challenge, they'll enjoy it. If you put them in a position of feeling stupid, then you're challenging them. Make it fun, then it doesn't matter. Any of the tricks listed above, performed well, will do just fine.

If you are looking for "intelligent" tricks, then I agree with those who suggest the creations of the more intellectual magicians out there, including Bannon and Aronson.

The main thing is to show them a good time.
abc
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If your sleights are excellently executed then there should not be any suspicion. Great gamblers can deal and second deal and bottom deal and they all look the same. that is what you have to achieve. I agree that at a gambling table someone is not going to grab the cards out of your hand as they may do when you are doing magic but you need to work on controlling that. There are hundreds of effects you can do. I did a you do as I do for a person that claimed prior to the show to have figured out any effect they have ever seen and they are still figuring it out. It is five card you do as I do with a stacked deck that takes and it tkaes less than one minute to select the cards. As a card magician you need to learn a variety of priciples, sleights and tricks and then analyze and think where they are weak and where not and how you can improve on them. Why would you for instance control a card to the top and then do a bunch of counting to display the card. But if you understand the principle of the counting then you casn do something else with it that is even more powerful. If they know a DL for some obscure or less obscure reason then use a Top Change or second deal. There are so many things you can alter in effects I don't think it is necesary to discuss which effects are better because almost any effect can be great if done correctly.
gadfly3d
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Frankly, I have found that clever/intelligent people are easier to fool if not entertain. Although I would personally avoid most self-working effects-Aronson's Shuffle bored might be an exception- and rely on sleights.

Gil Scott
Carlos the Great
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Quote:
On 2007-04-23 19:36, S2000magician wrote:

Note that the question wasn't "What effects will fool clever people?", it was, rather, "What effects would you perform for clever people?"


Which I answered, in detail. Of course, if one wants to perform tricks that don't actually fool people, then one would probably feel at home at magic club meetings.

Quote:
On 2007-04-23 19:36, S2000magician wrote:

Choosing effects that involve no sleight of hand avoids the specific situation the original poster posed: someone who burns your hands and will chalk up the entire effect to some minor fidget whether they catch an actual sleight or not.


Which is what led me in a general direction of specific effects. I pointed out that Shuffling Lesson, where the cards are in THEIR hands the whole time, has never failed to impress.

Quote:
On 2007-04-23 19:36, S2000magician wrote:
Choosing an effect such as Wait Until Dark (or, as others have suggested, Lazy Man's Card Trick or Dead Reckoning) has the added advantage that the result doesn't appear to have been a foregone conclusion from the outset. (One of the reasons I wouldn't use Predeckability is just that: it appears that the magician knew the outcome before the effect started.)


Just as I stated my opinion, you stated yours. I find that reasoning really weak though (the magician doesn't know the outcome of Wait Until Dark? If you say so).

Quote:
On 2007-04-23 19:36, S2000magician wrote:
There are, indeed, some extremely intelligent people who enjoy magic of all sorts. (Like you, I have a lot of education - BA in Business, BA and MA in Mathematics, CFA - and have performed for many brilliant people in the engineering, mathematics, finance, and medical fields with great success.) Alas, there are other people of varying degrees of intelligence who cannot enjoy magic of any sort; they must have some sort of explanation for any effect they see. (I have a dear friend who is like this: no matter what I or any other magician shows her, she always "knows" exactly how it is done; that her explanation is inaccurate is moot.)


Never EVER said anything different. In fact, here is what I said:

"While I am not saying that you can fool everybody all the time, the number of people who can figure "everything" out is, IN MY OPINION, maybe 1/10 or 1/100 of what most people suspect."

Maybe your friend is one of those. I used to think a bunch of people were like that but then I changed my approach. But, as I tried stressing over and over and over, that is just me and my opinion.

Quote:
On 2007-04-23 19:36, S2000magician wrote:
All that said, I believe that sleight-light effects - using, as another example, a memorized deck - will give one the best play for the type of individual the original poster cited. If they don't work, move to the next table. (They're probably better tippers over there anyway.)


"sleight-light effects" and self-working effects are not the same thing. A self-working effect MAY be sleight-light. I believe that pretty much every effect I named could be, depending on comfort level, be thought of as sleight-light. However, almost every "self-working" effect I have ever seen a magician do at a club meeting or other such place is presented poorly, comes off as a puzzle (and thus invites the spectator to try to "solve" it), and isn't done well, because of the fact that it is "self-working".

It's interesting, actually. You wrote a thoughtful response to my post, which I appreciate deeply, and yet, for some odd reason, I think that I could just cut and paste my original post here as my response without losing anything.

Isn't that odd?

-Carlos
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Schmecal
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Timely Departure by John Bannon. No sleights and it's a killer.
Mr Rubiks
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Tell a "spicy" joke and do the dirty work immediately after (during) you deliver the puchline.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On 2007-04-24 12:09, Carlos the Great wrote:
Just as I stated my opinion, you stated yours. I find that reasoning really weak though (the magician doesn't know the outcome of Wait Until Dark? If you say so).

In fact, I didn't say so. What I wrote was that it doesn't appear that the magician knew the outcome before he started.

Quote:
On 2007-04-24 12:09, Carlos the Great wrote:
"While I am not saying that you can fool everybody all the time, the number of people who can figure "everything" out is, IN MY OPINION, maybe 1/10 or 1/100 of what most people suspect."

Maybe your friend is one of those.

She's not. Nor did I write she can figure everything out. She is the sort who must have an explanation, frequently supplying her own (whether it matches reality or not).

Quote:
On 2007-04-24 12:09, Carlos the Great wrote:
"sleight-light effects" and self-working effects are not the same thing.

Clearly. If you're performing for someone who will ride any suspected sleight like an elephant, you should consider performing effects that have fewer perceived elephants (whether they're really elephants, really mice, or merely spectres).
JSBLOOM
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How about IMPOSSIBLE by larry Jennings?
ChristopherM
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Good call! Wait Until Dark (John Bannon, based on Simon Aronson's Shuffle-bored)
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2007-04-24 07:38, tntjr wrote:
Intelligent people are like anyone else.


Something isn't quite right with this statement, but I'm a bit too thick to figure out what.

Jeff (counting his toes, of which he has...ten?)
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