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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Expanded[ vs. Unexpanded[....? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Fingers
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Pennsylvania, USA
1330 Posts

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I am torn between the purchase of another silver dollar Morgan set I intend to purchase in the near future, either with an expanded[ or unexpanded[, from one or the other, Lassen or Schoolcraft.

I already have an unexpanded[ silver Morgan dollar set from Schoolcraft, which I would say the unexpanded[ is perfect in almost every way and quite undetectable from the spectators viewpoint. I need to purchase another silver Morgan Dollar set and I am toying with the idea of getting an expanded [ set this time.

There are several reasons why I am considering the expanded[ set this time, the "main" reason is the fact I would prefer the other coins in the set maintain their original circumferance. There are other reasons, but the original coin size is the first reason.

My dilemma is this: I am afraid to get the expanded[ and lose the quality I have with the unexpanded[ in my first set. I love my first set and its [. I don't have any expanded['s to compare with my unexpanded[ . What I would like to know from those who have Lassen or Schoolcraft expanded ['s is how they compare with the unexpanded ['s. Is the loss of precision in the expanded[ marginal in comparison to the unexpanded[ or is there a clear cut difference? Having an unexpanded [, will I be disappointed if I purchase the expanded [?

Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated! You have to reach deep in the pocket to get these sets and I would like the voice of experience to put me on the right track to possibly avoid any disappointment in the future, thanks.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
BrianMillerMagic
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Inner circle
CT
2050 Posts

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An expanded shell gives you the versatility to use it with any regulation non shaved down coin, and for that I think it's absolutely worth it. I always use an expanded shell for that reason. If you're comfortable with what you're already doing though I might not change it. Why fix it if it ain't broken, right?
Fingers
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Inner circle
Pennsylvania, USA
1330 Posts

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Thanks for your input Brian. Part of the reason I would like to go the expanded[ route is, because of the versatility you speak of. I would like to have that advantage through its versatility, I am just afraid the epanded[ won't look as austere as the unexpanded[. However, if "you" don't have a problem with using an expanded[, I would think that would be a plus for purchasing it.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
foolsnobody
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Buffalo, NY
843 Posts

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I would also like some opinions on this question, but I have a different take on it. Both silver and half dollars are unusual coins and not much in circulation, even Kennedies. So if I am going to do routines with either size coins the chances are I am not going to be borrowing the "regular" coins. Second, I have long been contemplating buying a set of soft coins, probably Barbours, so I can try out the John Ramsay material I have had for years (not to mention all the other effects requiring soft coins). So with those caveats, am I better off getting an unexpanded set and a milled-down copper-silver to match? Should I get the coins remilled then or will that defeat the purpose of getting soft coins?


P.S. Not sure if my terminology is right either...I mean an unexpanded set, a couple more coins to match the set coins (since I would need more than 4 coins for, say, Coins in the Hat), and a copper-silver coin that matches the smaller "regular" coins in the unexpanded set. By re-milled I mean those little grooves perpendicular to the edge for easier classic palming.
BrianMillerMagic
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CT
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Quote:
On 2007-04-24 00:47, Fingers wrote:
Thanks for your input Brian. Part of the reason I would like to go the expanded[ route is, because of the versatility you speak of. I would like to have that advantage through its versatility, I am just afraid the epanded[ won't look as austere as the unexpanded[. However, if "you" don't have a problem with using an expanded[, I would think that would be a plus for purchasing it.....


The thing is for me, that no one should be closely examining a [. They won't be examined, so as long as it passes for a real coin as the routine is happening, there's no problem. Only magicians will notice a [ in place of a real coin. Laypeople would never on their life notice a difference. They aren't as familiar with object, even coins, as we are.
jmcgrath
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Regular user
Tomorrow I'll make another
147 Posts

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Fingers,

If it was me then I would get a duplicate of the set that you already have.

There are loads of things that you can do with 2 ['s in the 1 routine. However you do not want to have to worry about having to match a shell to different coins in the same routine, and you would want all coins to have the same diameter.

With this set up you would end up with 2 matching ['s and 8 matching cut down coins. There is very little that you can't do with this set - all that is left is to throw in a cut down flipper and you have it all. The other bonus is that the cut down coins are easier to palm.

Or at least that was my thinking when I got the above set up.

Regards,

John

P.S. the shells I have are exactly the same size and fit either set of coins.
John McGrath
eddieloughran
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I can't get too involved here because I'm English and nobody here, except magicians, have seen American coins and wouldn't know if they looked slightly different or the rim was slightly bigger.
Therefore I prefer expanded shells.

But the non-expanded shell I have came with only one coin, which is different to Johns experience above.
If we use a non-expanded shell and four cut down coins that means that there is always at least three non-standard coins in play;
as apposed to one non-standard shell and three normal coins with an expanded shell.
jmcgrath
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Regular user
Tomorrow I'll make another
147 Posts

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Eddie,

I never use more than 4 coins in a routine so the set that I have with 1 non expanded [ and 4 cut down coins works well. Having the second set as well means that if there is something else that needs 5 or 6 or 8 coins I have that covered. For me however I was wanting to have the ability to use 2 ['s with 4 coins, and this is why I got the second set.

I guess that you are correct though. I could have gotten 2 expanded ['s and saved some money, but the purist in me (the one with more money than sense) wanted to have the best. Also the non E ['s do cover further down the coins in my experience.

Living is Bonnie Scotland I am also faced with the same problem that no one has ever seen old Dollar coins, but I believe that this is also the case in the US. I therefore simply introduce them as large coins. If I have the time I hand them out and tell the specs a little about them and touch them together to make them ring. At that point everyone understands why I am using them and any questions cease.

Regards,

John
John McGrath
Fingers
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Inner circle
Pennsylvania, USA
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Hey foolsnobody, if you get an unexpanded[ set the regular coins you receive are already re-milled, because they have been cut down to fit the unexpanded[. It doesn't effect the fact they are soft, it just makes them easier to grip.

I agree with you Brian nobody should be examining a [ close up, but I did mean from afar.

That is one of the reasons I was considering an expanded[ set eddieloughran, for the fact the regular coins would remain the standard size.

McGrath, I understand your reasoning and I even like your idea, which I think has good merit, but I think my decision is going to be to go for the expanded[ set. I have several reasons for my choice, which in the end outways your thinking for now anyway. However, with your response, you have me thinking I may want to go for a third set, geeze.....

Like I said before I have several reasons for my choice. I had a veteran user PM me and he convinced me that I need to make the choice I made for the expanded[ set, because it will be to my greatest benefit for the particular needs I do have. Thank you all so much, actually you all have been instrumental in helping me to make my choice.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
tbaer
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Inner circle
Pennsylvania
1965 Posts

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I have Lassen's half dollar unexpanded shell with the remilled matching coins and I also have Lassen's half dollar expanded shell. I agree the unexpanded shell looks better because there is no distortion to the face and if placed beside one of the remilled coins, they look to be the same size.

The expanded shell does have a slight distortion to the face and is slightly bigger than a normal coin, however, your audience will never know. The only way the audience would know is if you place the shell directly beside another regular coin and even then they may not notice anything depending how long they are beside each other.

But when I use the expanded shell, the coins are moving all the time.

I personally use my unexpanded shell more, however, I still use the expanded shell. Hope this helps.
Fingers
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Pennsylvania, USA
1330 Posts

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Thanks tbaer and yes it does help. The whole problem is I had nothing to compare my unexpanded[ to. However, you have both, so you would know. I kind of figured it would be the way you said, but I wasn't sure.

I will use the [ pretty much the same way you said you use yours and I am glad you said the spectators would never know. Of course, that is my greatest concern. I don't want to dish out a lot of money if the [ isn't going to do its job, so to speak and be deceptive to the audience.

I have been using Schoolcraft props this far and they are excellent, but I think I am going to go with Lassen this time. I have decided to get the expanded[ soft Morgan silver dollars with five regular coins instead of four.....
Where I go, so do my coins.....
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