Much respect due.

The correct move

Nice!

Thank you, Dennis. Very good of you.

And thank you to the forum members for respectfully eliminating internet exposure


Great to see people doing something about it rather than just complaining.

:applause:

Crap like this is one of the main reason I love doing readings:no secret to expose.

Chuck Hickok lectured at the Magic Castle about two years ago, and one of the many highlights of it was his improvement on Clipline. As I recall, he was also marketing it at that time. Without going into detail, I consider Regling's article referenced above a serious breach of ethics.

According to Dennis C. Regling's own sites, he is a minister with Piedmont Christian Ministries in Ohio. He has websites at http://www.bibledefender.com/index.html and at http://www.magicministry.com , which is a mini-Infinity Egress site

He quotes many verses from the Bible and ironically poses the unanswered question:

"Is it possible to actually own a magic effect?"
http://forums.bellaonline.com/ubbthreads......st276612

I guess that's how he need not be concerned with the commandment, "Thou Shalt Not Steal."


Arnon I. Sincoff, Esq.
Member of the CA & NY State Bars

This guy also posts a lot of marketing tips for magicians on Bella Online. I read them last year.
Looks like he playing both sides of the fence. Or maybe he thinks he is helping budding magicians.

Hi Dennis:I just read your essay on exposure and I have to say I agree with most of what you wrote.

However,...sure there are many classic magic effects available at the public library and on the net.Firstly,one has to make the effort[which usually takes a sincere interest in magic]to seek out the information.[which by the way can be quite frustrating..if one has no inherent interest]

What I am against is exposure of effects on websites that cater to 'non-magic interested folks'.They go there for make-up tips... and ..."oh hey look a free magic trick". "Well golly gee..thats cool!"

Thanks for being a stand-up guy and removing the effect.

Best.
Rich

How many of you memorized 793.8, the area where magic books were shelved in public libraries according to the Dewey Decimal System?

Every time I found myself in a new city as a youngster (my parents were divorced so I was moved around a lot), I would go to the public library there to see whether there were any magic books I hadn't read before. I also became interested in chess because those books were right nearby the magic books.

As PaleoMagi/Rich has said, if you were highly motivated, you'd seek out those books, and if not, you'd pass them up on the shelf. I remember never having to worry about a magic book being unavailable by reason of being checked out by someone else, since it never happened in my experience.

However, with the age of the Internet, exposure is way too easy for, literally, the "browsers."

Hence, I think we must safeguard against the "casually curious" learning and cheapening our secrets, or our art will suffer for it.

Frankly, I'm amazed that the method of Clipline was in a popular magic book for the public. I never ran across it, and I'd love to know the title of that book. I used to pride myself on having read every magic book I could get my hands on in public libraries.

Arnon

P.S. Besides Chuck Hickok, another top mentalist, Richard Osterlind, has Clip Line as the third effect on volume 2 of his DVD set, "Easy To Master Mental Miracles." Jeff Sheridan also uses it with Mental Epic.

Sure we wanted you to get rid of it Dennis, but not until I PERSONALLY saw it. So...stick it back a while will ya?
Bobser

I was a big fan of 793.8 too, arnon. Thanks for the memory!

I believe a version of Clipline was in Magic Digest by, of all people given this discussion, George B. Anderson. This was sold in the chain bookstores in the 70s.

I remember stumbling upon "Practical Mental Magic" in the library.

Turned my world upside down!

Weeks later I recovered from the injuries and checked out the book.

But seriously, I recently browsed the 793.8 at a local branch of the library only to find no magic books whatsoever!

After a few visits I browsed the children's area, and sure enough, there were the books.

Not a huge selection, but I still found it odd to see a book describing (with photos) tricks with lit cigarettes
as well as a comprehensive book on the history of African American magicians ("Conjure Times"- very interesting read).

Who considered these "Children's Books"?!

I always review it at my performance in libraries this year.

You don't get it do you? The other magicians on this forum do not want you to know how it is done. Sorry.

Much good has come of this thread. It has led me to an interesting website, which I found by Googling "Magic Digest" (Thanks to Bill Cushman ) at http://www.magictricks.com/

They've got sections such as the Magic Museum, Magic Memorabilia, and they sell both original and reproduced collectible magic posters.

Amazon.com has the "Magic Digest" listed in used condition from $3.74 to $52.94 plus $3.99 shipping!

All the Best,
Arnon

P.S. By 1970, I was already 21 and was buying magic books at Tannen's rather than checking out libraries. Hmmmm, I wonder what I have been missing!? Better check out the libraries in Los Angeles.

Magic Digest is a wonderful book.

If you’ve never read it, you would be surprised with the gems hidden between it’s covers.
I remember learning the 100-foot rope escape for this very book,
(or was it 50 foot … I don’t remember... but it was a lot of rope and I was a kind of short).

I used to consistently check this book out of the library so that no one else in town could get their hands on it. One of my all time favorites.


Steve

[quote]On 2007-09-25 23:32, PaleoMagi wrote:
However,...sure there are many classic magic effects available at the public library and on the net.Firstly,one has to make the effort[which usually takes a sincere interest in magic]to seek out the information.[which by the way can be quite frustrating..if one has no inherent interest]
What I am against is exposure of effects on websites that cater to 'non-magic interested folks'.They go there for make-up tips... and ..."oh hey look a free magic trick". "Well golly gee..thats cool!"

1) if I am looking for a book on baseball or card games, the magic books are right next to them. These books cater to 'non-magic interested folks.' They want to learn to play canasta, but.... "oh hey, look a book filled with magic tricks." My local library even has the Tony Hassini videos. When I was first starting, I learned a lot from these. So, magic books should not be sold to libraries that cater to non-magic folks.
2) you seem to be saying exposure is okay if it takes an effort to find it. How many people take an effort to find out how David Blaine, Criss Angel and others do their tricks..... and the effort pays off when they search ebay.

So what about magicians who give away "dollar bills" with the linking paperclips or the jumping rubberbands on the back? I use these two tricks quite often in impromptu situations. Exposure to 'non-magic personnel.'
Then there are the magicians who have a kids page with magic tricks they can do.
This is exposure too.
Or magicians that teach magic classes at libraries to people who, let's face it, are not magicians and never will be. More exposure.

Worse yet, in 1998, I started learning magic from library books and writing Christian messages to go with the tricks. I was doing youth devotions at the Salvation Army and this was an excellent way to keep their attention.
I invented Gospel Magic. I had never heard of it before. I didn't know anyone else did it.
Six months later, I discovered that Duane Laflin was selling videos exposing the concept of Gospel magic and telling folks how tricks were done. Selling this stuff to youth workers in churches.
Do you know how many churches I have been in where non-magicians know how the tricks are done or where I can't get booked because a lady in the church "does that kind of thing."
Thank you Duane Laflin for exposing Gospel Magic (that I invented! I didn't invent it first, but I did invent it). Selling the secrets to whoever has the cash.

My article was an original presentation of a classic trick.
It was intended for my readers. Folks who signed up to learn more about magic. Not people just wanting to know how a trick is done, but people who are looking for things to use in the church, in classrooms, or wherever.
I am against exposing tricks just to expose them. But there seems to be hypocrisy among the magic clique. If I expose anything I am bad. If they peddle their books and videos (and just because someone pays you to expose the magic, it is still exposure), use their give-away dollars and put tricks on their websites for kids, that's okay. This I do not understand.

I am only an amateur so am hesitant to voice opinions in areas better left to the professionals and those more experienced and knowledgeable than I, but I think that Dennis has "done the right thing" here and wanted to commend him on that.

This thread made me think of my first exposure to magic, which was through the Jawbreakers videos that were sold on infomercials years ago. Probably my favorite Jawbreakers effect was a clipline effect. My brother-in-law asked me how I did that for months after I performed it at a family gathering, 'til he finally accepted that I would not reveal the secrets.

I would think that most magicians would've preferred that Jawbreakers stick more to the "Do as I Do" effects and not have included clipline. These entry level magic items are "sifters" in that they teach simple tricks to most of the people buying them which is the extent of their interest in magic. They also create a level of interest in people (like me) that want to learn more.

However, once something is exposed it is exposed. While I would now prefer that the Jawbreakers/internet magic sites stick with "Do as I Do" effects, that's not going to happen. Also, there's nobody that gets to play God and determine what is acceptable to teach (or expose) as your viewpoint may be. There isn't a list of "acceptable" effects/methods to teach to those interested in learning a bit of magic (although I think it would be a good idea if a list was created and maintained by a magicians panel, allowing “learn a trick” magic sites to conform and get a “Magic Café stamp of approval” or whatever.)

In my first performances, I performed for a couple of friends that knew about a double lift, etc and it made it very hard to perform for them. I quickly learned that Ambitious Card was a disaster performing for them, but Out of This World went over great. As time went by, and my skills (and audience management) improved, they became more like “normal” spectators and allowed me to become more of a storyteller such as in Gypsy Curse, Frog Prince, Ooh Aah Bird, etc.

I do empathize with performers, both pro and amateur, encountering spectators with a big mouth and a little knowledge that enjoy disrupting shows. As someone that is just putting an act together, it is an area that I would like to learn more on how pros handle situations like this.

I don’t want to get in the middle of a firestorm with this post and don’t mean to speak “out of my place” as just an amateur.

I suggest that your opinion of this will change someday when you have ideas and routines of your own - especially if your ideas are the ones chosen to be exposed.

In Dennis' case I think he could teach presentation, which seems to be the focus of his interest, and refer to possible methods leaving the readers to research on their own. If you stick to methods commonly described in most library/bookstore books that would work out well as most enthusiasts will already have the work. It also puts the emphasis on presentation as the core of the magic and not method as it should be.

From the performers end we need to make sure our presentations stand with or without the spectators having some clues. In other words leave the knowing one with the thought "I know how that works but it doesn't explain..."

Just some thoughts.

[quote]On 2007-09-27 12:54, bdekolta wrote:

Good advise, I'll keep it in mind. Thanks

On the odd occasion when somebody insists I teach them a trick I have one in reserve. It appears simple and gets the "A-Ha!" response when the spectator realizes the secret. It is also one that tends to backfire on them the first time they perform. Not to make them look silly but to make the point that even a simple thing needs to be thought through. This usually happens when they are showing me the trick to "make sure they understand it."

I remember seeing a magician come through. At the end of the show he opened his table at the back of the room. It included D-Lites, Professor Nightmares, etc. Basically a small magic shop. Pretty disappointing.

On the whole I don't think a public web page in the middle of a non-magic web community is the place to be describing or discussing secrets.