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Hearttau Elite user New Jersey: Exit 15 E 423 Posts |
I was in Tannen's and Fantasma the other day and it got me thinking about the pros and cons of brick and mortar vs. internet magic shops. My conclusion? Brick and Mortar all the way. Even though the very stores I visited also have websites, being there made all the difference. My visit reminded me of how different an effect can look in person as opposed to video on the net. It saved me from wasting some money. Although I spent too much nonetheless! But being able to ask questions from a real human being, nothing beats it!
I think my biggest reservation to ordering magic on the internet is of course what you’re buying is usually a secret until you get it. This makes sense on one level since you are paying for a secret but when you purchase an effect only to receive instructions to buy three other items to perform the effect or the gaff requires an engineering degree to construct or the gaff that cost you $25.00 turns out to be a paperclip it’s crossing a shady line. Buyer beware I know, but you no doubt know where I’m coming from. I know some of this has been touched on in the “Buying FAQ” above, but I have a suggestion to possible solve some of these issues It’s probably been brought up before. A requirement or content label on effect packaging and website listings. An example: nuclear fission required for this effect – nuclear power plant sold separately. Or, knowledge of various card sleights required. The information could be coded as we do on the forum, so secrets couldn’t be divulged easily. Now some sites, of course, list skill level, which is a start. But having a little more information about what’s required for the effect should always be available. Now I know there are some products that do this already. But it’s the ones that don’t do this and are misleading that are the problem. I guess I’m suggesting a code of conduct for labeling, similar to the magician’s code. So what do you think? I posted in this forum because newcomers to magic are no doubt especially concerned with these issues.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand
"Peace and all good"... St. Francis "Hold on to your joy!"... Me http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/ |
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MagiClyde Special user Columbus, Ohio 871 Posts |
It sounds like a great idea, but I can already see one small problem with it. Who sets the grade scale? One magician's "easy" is another's "hard". To some degree, all such scales would be subjective. At least I think the idea deserves some looking into.
Magic! The quicker picker-upper!
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F-Hmagic New user 56 Posts |
This touches on the reason I don't buy (anything) over the internet. Nothing can beat physically going to a store and seeing an example and talking to someone.
As far as labelling goes, I have no suggestions. In order to provide enough information about the purchase, I don't know how one would not give the secret away. A scale would have the problems mentioned by clynim.
What?! How'd that get there?!
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Hearttau Elite user New Jersey: Exit 15 E 423 Posts |
Here’s another example: B-wave is often portrayed as a free choice selection. On the label it should say “Magician’s Choice” or “Equivocate recommended “. A magician would know what’s required. A newcomer would probably inquire as to the meaning of these terms and learn the limitations of the effect before purchase.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand
"Peace and all good"... St. Francis "Hold on to your joy!"... Me http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/ |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Maybe like..
"Some intermediate knowledge of card sleights required." or "Requires an additional item for the penetration effect." I doubt dealers will get too specific about requirements. To say that a trick requires a Triple Lift, Rhumba Count and a Double Back Card may be a bit much. When dealing via the Net you might try asking the dealer what is needed before purchase. Not saying you will get a reply but worth a shot. |
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Hearttau Elite user New Jersey: Exit 15 E 423 Posts |
Jaz,
Exactly. I’ve tried ordering from two sites. Neither responded to my inquiries, and when I did try to order from one of them, they insisted my credit card was invalid. The same card I used in Tannen's and Fantasma the other day with no problem. It’s a combination of bad web design and bad customer service. I agree listing exact sleighs would be too much. Most sites do mention if sleight of hand is required. It’s just that you sometimes get the wrong impression about an effect. Let me use B-Wave as an example again. I got the distinct impression from magic dealers on the web that there was a free choice involved because they used the term “free choice” when they should have said “magician’s choice”. I imagined a different gaff from seeing the term “free choice”. It was only during the live demo when someone picked the queen of spades that I figured it out. In all the web demos I’ve seen the volunteer picked a red queen, reinforcing my wrong impression. However if the web demos went with a black choice they would have subtly made the mechanics of the effect clear. It’s not being vague about the secrets of an effect that bothers me; it’s the misleading language.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand
"Peace and all good"... St. Francis "Hold on to your joy!"... Me http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/ |
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Jay Austin Regular user 184 Posts |
I agree that the best place to buy from is a local brick and Mortie shop. I like being able to talk to others and see an effect before I spend money on it. I do not think that a shop should give away a secret before you purchase it. I went into a shop Saturday and Harry Anderson was in there demonstrating some tricks. One, it was great to see Harry work and be able to learn from someone like him. Another great thing was that it gave us an opportunity to network with some local magicians. You can not get that on an internet shop.
Also, our local shop here tries to sell tricks that are within a customers ability. If someone comes in the shop and they are just starting in magic, Ricky will point them toward some tricks that are at their ability. You do not get that personalized attention from an internet site. I have seen kids com in and him work with them to learn an effect. If you have a local shop in your area, support it. If you don't we will loose one of the great personalized services available to magicians. |
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts |
Joe at Misdirections here in San Francisco has advised me not to buy some stuff (like linking rings) he felt I wasn't ready for.
///ark |
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F-Hmagic New user 56 Posts |
*sniff* I wish there were a magic shop near by. That's one thing I am looking forward about going off to college. I believe there are a couple of magic shops within short distances of the school!
What?! How'd that get there?!
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gardini Regular user Cornwall, Ontario, Canada 158 Posts |
Hello,
I'm about 60miles from the nearest shop, so I can say that I've been pretty disappointed with some stuff I bought. I've learned my lesson though that just because it is madeendorsedcreated by a big time magician dosen't nessary mean that its any good. Now I seach the reviews off of this site before any internet purchases. Since then I'm a lot more of a Happy Magician and the Wife dosen't have to listen to me complain anymore. Gardini |
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gardini Regular user Cornwall, Ontario, Canada 158 Posts |
Hello,
I'm about 60miles from the nearest shop, so I can say that I've been pretty disappointed with some stuff I bought. I've learned my lesson though that just because it is madeendorsedcreated by a big time magician dosen't nessary mean that its any good. Now I seach the reviews off of this site before any internet purchases. Since then I'm a lot more of a Happy Magician and the Wife dosen't have to listen to me complain anymore. Gardini |
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Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
I think the net and the brick and mortar shops are both useful. If you live near and shop....I don't (2 hours away). When buying off the Internet make full use of the Internet. Search for as many reviews of the product as you can. Also, use forums, like this one to ask other magicians about the product and get their opinion. Finally, try to find a site that offers a video demonstration of the effect. My favorite demos are the straight forward videos of the performance from start to finish. However, you also need to keep a couple things in mind. First, the video only shows you one angle and that trick may not be effective from other angles. Second, some effects don't have video demos because if a magician watches the video over and over again they can copy the trick without purchasing it.
Even if you choose to buy from a brick and mortar shop do your homework on the net first. Have a good idea of what you are looking for before you go in and you will benefit much more.
Wes
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Hearttau Elite user New Jersey: Exit 15 E 423 Posts |
I certainly agree that the net and particularly the magic Café are wonderful for research and websites provide greater choice than a brick and mortar can. Unfortunately the effects on top of my list were not available at the shops I visited, hence no in store demo to evaluate the effects. Alas, brick and mortars can't stock everything.
In a perfect magic world I would like to see websites that evaluate effects before selling them, weeding the quality from the junk and then refusing to sell the junk. It would save us all a lot of time and grief. If there happens to be a web shop like that please let me know.
Lentidigitator: “A magic artist who performs slow motion magic”... Rene Lavand
"Peace and all good"... St. Francis "Hold on to your joy!"... Me http://mysite.verizon.net/hearttau/ |
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magic777 New user 87 Posts |
Research carefully the effects before you buy them. Do not buy just to find the method. If you research, I don't think it matters if you buy from the Internet or elsewhere. Wherever you buy from, the dealer I would guess, wants you to be satisfied with your purchase. If you research, you wont be disappointed with your paperclip gaffe. Even if the gaffe is a paperclip you will know you are buying into a solid routine and thinking which will suit your performance style.
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-07 10:49, Hearttau wrote: No, but they can often order items that aren't in stock. ///ark |
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Jay Austin Regular user 184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-07 20:35, Mark Wilden wrote: Very true. There have been very few times where the shop I go to could not get what I am looking for. They have even found some stuff that was out of production for me. I needed a new change bag recently and I went in and they did not have one in stock. I told them that I needed it by Tuesday for a Wednesday morning show. This was Saturday about 4:30. It was delivered and even had my choice of a couple different bags. (I only use it for a mis-made flag routine but the one I had broke.) Now that is what I call service. |
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Robert Apodaca Special user 504 Posts |
Well, let's talk about the benefits of of online magic shops.
First of all, from what I have been able to tell consistently they're cheaper. Secondly, real shops can't have everything that online stores have available for purchase, even if they do order it for you I believe you could get it cheaper if you ordered it yourself And most importantly a lot or people don't have real magic shops near them. I believe the only one near me is Hollywood Magic which is about an hour away. I really see no benefit in driving an hour away to buy an invisible deck for 8 dollars when I could get it online for 5. With that being said, there are benefits to both online and real magic shops. |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Online shops are convenient but I miss the interaction with dealers and ability to handle stuff that I could at the B&M shops.
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Borack Regular user Tampa Bay 109 Posts |
The closet magic shop for me is about two hours as well...Everytime I have gone there he is closed despite the hours he has posted in his window...I gave up on him...If I need to make an appointment it kinda defeates the purpose of the interaction..IMO anyway...So now whatever I need or want I read the reviews here, ask questions and purchase through the maze of online dealers who want your business...
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Mark Wilden Veteran user San Francisco 375 Posts |
I usually buy online, too. But I also buy from my local shop for two reasons: 1) The owner gives me good advice. If I'm just getting into silks, for example, I don't really know what to buy. Joe will tell me. 2) If we don't buy from brick-and-mortar shops, they'll disappear. That would be sad, I think. There are few enough opportunities to personally interact with professionals to let these venues go.
///ark |
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