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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Well before I post I think it's good if we have a link, from a Gerald Kein, one of the TOP Clinical Hypnotherapist / Top Teachers of Hypnosis in the World. I'd put him in the top 5. He learned from the LEGENDARY Dave Elman and knew Dave Elman. This link, is a article like a couple of pages long SPECIFICALLY on "Abreaction Management". Though it's Clinical in Perspective, I'm guessing Stage Hypnotist must use the same types of rules of thumb, and techniques.
http://www.omnihypnosis.com/abreactart.htm I only know of TWO WAYS to deal with Abreactions. 1. “The scene fades and you tend to your breathing.” - Gerald Kein 2. "When I Clap My Hands At The Count Of Three, You'll Be Here In The Present Calm & Relaxed 1...2...3, Clap." - Michael D. Preston PHD http://www.medhypno.com I actually think this is a EXTREMELY IMPORTANT thread. I haven't seen any threads on how to deal or what to say and do, if (it's just a matter of WHEN) a abreaction occurs. I know a lot of those who are like me "Beginners In Hypnosis", who like me, like to "Pactice" on others. I know a lot of the more experienced here frown on Beginners who "Practice On Others", BUT that will enevitely still keep happening and at least with this thread they will know what to do just in case. Also I would like to know what you TOP PROFESSIONALS do and say, or is it different depending on each situation. Sincerely, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Hi ED,
I think you've already given the answer. And yes, it would mainly be in the realms of 'clinical' where we'd find such abreactions. Mainly in the discourse of free association, perhaps in seeking to find the reasons for a suppression which in itself would contain the cause of a particular phobia. Bob.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
Depends upon the nature of the abreaction and what I am doing at the time.
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
An abreaction is where someone associates into a memory that has unresolved emotional elements.
A bit like when you think about something pleasant you did last week and the feelings come back. Except problem abreactions are when very unpleasant experiences are involved. The first thing you must do is disscociate the person from the memory so that the feelings associated are dulled down or even switched off. These past memories in a theraputic context can easily be resolved very quickly and painlessly. However many therapies are inneffective because part of their solution is to use analytic techniques where the client is asked to relive or revisit the past memory and associate back into it. This can add layers to the problem and lenghten the therapy process. Which is why some people are in therapy or counselling for years. And usually they still have the problem after. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-14 04:58, mindpunisher wrote: Well...nearly right. But no coconut. First of all yes it's true that some people can go trough 1,000 hours or more of therapy, however, a good hypnotherapist (or even better a free-association hypnotherapist) wants, in fact needs the client to abreact since it is the only possible way to release the suppression which causes their trauma, which will probably be some form of phobia(Yes I know the question was about hypnotists rather than therapists but I'm simply tidying up mingpusher's faux pas). So... in all therapy, an abreaction is something to be sought after. If in stage hypnoses it has happened for a reason and even then it is not necessarily a bad thing, although it can bu***r up the show for a while I suppose. Bobser
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Bob you are so wrong my friend...
Associating and reliving a trauma is a common outdated misconception. There is no need to relive a trauma. Reliving a trauma or abreacting adds another layer to the gestalt. Plus its very stressfull for the client. Any therapy that uses these techniques is outdated outmoded and ineffective. The only way to release an emotion is to release it not relive it. And the client never even need to know the details nevermind experience any of the unpleasant emotions... bad bad outdated therapy... And again you showcase your limited knowledge abreactions are not contained to the emotion of fear....Anger Sadness guilt and a whole combination of emotions in between can be part of a series of gestalts triggered not only by hypnosis by everyday events. |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
As far as stage goes they will abreact to the limits you allow them to, in most cases.
If this doesn't make sense you do need some training. I am wondering about this forum too...is some kid going to come in here, read a few posts and go for it, thinking he knows how to handle abreactions? It is very irresponsible to teach bits and pieces of stage hypnotism. You can't learn stage hyp from a forum. Do what Danny says...find a mentor. It is worth all the headaches for the instruction and experience you will gain. |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
Mindpunisher stated : "An abreaction is where someone associates into a memory that has unresolved emotional elements."
Not quite true in a stage show situation, in my experience. In a stage show, an abreaction is ANY reaction that falls outside the normal range of expected reactions to the suggestions given to the volunteer group at the time. Some of these can ba highly amusing and some can be rather disturbing and some can be just, plain offbeat. In one case, I did the "funny movie/sad movie" routine and one kid, in the audience, after the show, refused to leave "until the movie was over," even though he had not outwardly demonstrated anything in the way of other trance reactions. But he was adamant about watching the movie and would NOT budge - and he was deadly serious about it. So, I told him to watch it and, as I was finishing putting my gear away told him that it had come to a successful and satisfying conclusion. He smiled, I took him through a trance termination and he left, awake and happy. But that was an abreaction. Not all abreactions are highly emotional and upsetting. Some can be subtle ad some can be very funny, if you know what to look for - as an abreaction, in some cases, really isn't, but simply the result of a volunteer misinterpreting a suggestion. Which is why we always have to be crystal clear about what we want the volunteers to do - for how long and what will stop the acions! Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Lee I think we have a slight dispute about sematics. I wouldn't call what you describe an abreaction. It is just a trance behaviour. It is created by the imagination of the participants rather than recalling a specific event...
The general meaning for an abreaction is the emotional release from a repressed traumatic memory. Here are a variety of all most indenticle meanings.. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abreaction |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
MP,
How GREAT would it be if you didn't have to be right all the time! You are obviously not familiar with Lee, his background or vast experience. It's in order to say, "Thank you" and learn and move on, instead of fighting to be right and arguing (politely, I might add) over semantics. Not telling you how to live your life, not telling you how to show up on the forum. I'm only proposing something that you might gain from. Yours, Jerome.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
I don't have to be right all the time. Im sure one day I won't. However why does it bother you when I add something? People are correcting me all the time. I welcome that. Infact Lee "corrected" me in his previous post.
So what you are saying is the truth doesn't really matter we must accept anything that certain members may say. With great respect Jerome you don't know me either - but I kinda like it that way.. I can sense that that little voice you created for me is annoyiing you again...why don't you distort it in your head until it amuses you....makes this shade of green more appealing.. |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
"Abreaction: a reaction that is not expected, out of the ordinary or not compatible with the suggestions given, ofttimes, but not always related to a highly emotional response." - Stephen Lankton, author of Practical Magic and several other works on hypnosis, NLP and advanced therapeutic modalities.
It seems that we are both right, Pun. In the case I mentioned, the acting out of the emotional conflict was to finish watching the movie that he wanted to watch - signs of possible OCD, if nothing else, which I was told, later, that he had shown mild symptoms of in other areas of behavior. However, someone who acts out in a manner unexpected and not in keeping with the suggestion and who refuses to follow other suggestions, like the young man in my example and, hence, requires a specific and special intervention on the part of the hypnotist, qualifies as someone who has abreacted. Other abreactions would include refusal to exit trance on command, cataleptic withdrawal, sudden hysterics (both of the screaming and laughing types), affect loss (the subject essentially becomes extremely passive, showing no emotion at all, even in the face of extreme provocation), convulsions and catatonia. Let me stress that all of these abreactions are extremely rare and in almost forty years of performing, I have only seen about two of them in actuality in my own shows, but have seen them manifest in the shows of others due to suggestion mismanagement (mostly due to the hypnotist suggesting something that triggered phobia responses in the volunteer(s) in question) and literally all of them are usually easily dealt with IF you know what occurred to trigger the initial response. The best way to keep the most common abractions or unexpected reactions from happening is to know what the most common triggers FOR those abreactions or unexpected reactions are and to steer well clear of anything that could evoke such responses in the first place! There are many of the "old standard" routines from days gone by that I would consider highly evocative for someone who has the potential for abreaction. Among them would be: Age regression - you never know what you are going to run into back there - abuse, molestation, or what Swarm of insects at a picnic routine - LOTS of people are phobic about insects and a significant portion of the population, now, has proven to be highly allergic to various insect bites and stings. This routine has the potential for hysteria, big time, IMHO. We had to do quite a bit of cleanup work at my own college when a certain "big name" hypnotist did this one! Out of 20 volunteers, he had three go hysterical on stage and we wound up seeing four more in the Psych offices later that day. I was NOT happy about that. The "Sinking beneath the waters of sleep" induction - lots of people have a very real fear of drowning and imagery of that type can scare the pogees out of them. I saw that happen on four different occasions, with four diferent hypnotists, so this one isn't speculation, but is borne out by observation. I'm sure some of you can come up with some others. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-15 06:37, mindpunisher wrote: Utter tosh. With no disrespect in any way whatsoever you obviously have no idea what you're talking about (sorry, but it saves time). Abreacting does not add anything... it simply 'pops' the suppression. Quote:
The only way to release an emotion is to release it not relive it. And the client never even need to know the details nevermind experience any of the unpleasant emotions... The emotion is always there, It's the suppression that gets released through the abreaction. And wrong again, the patient (or as you call 'em: 'clients') absolutely needs to know the details (they already do of course, but only in their subconcious)and desperately need to go through the emotions in order to abreact which will guarantee the release of the suppression... yaddyaddyaddy Quote:
"People are correcting me all the time" Yes, I've noticed that, but you're not listening, are you?! Not being funny but I'm guessing you're a kid, right?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
Great feedback guys especially Lee. I trust Lee and I KNOW he knows his stuff.
Okay let me set-up a specific scenario, and what would YOU DO specifically in this situation. Okay in real life I have a fear (mild Phobia of snakes as I'm okay watching them in a cage), but loose I run like hell, and I'm FAST. Okay let's say you had me as a volunteer on stage and you did "Snakes on a Stage Routine", which like Lee said is like a old routine, but not knowing me or KNOWING ANY BETTER did that, and I had a positive hallucination of snake, and I just got up and ran like heel, probably out of the theater and down the street. Do you as a hypnotist, leave the other subjects and chase me down, possibly having to restrain me, thereby leaving your stage and the subjects, or would you just let me run hoping, I'd snap out of it. Or would you be quick enough the moment I jumped up, to stop me before leaving the stage. In any case, (Case Specific) what would you say exactly and do? Also remember you have the audience, and subjects and a kick *** show to put on. Personally, I know MOST Hypnotist work alone I THINK? I would have a team. I wrote in my "Rapid Hypnotic Inductions" thread, that since I like the fallback induction, I'd hire a "Stage crew" two whom would be "Catchers", ALA Benny Hin. I'd have a Sound & Lights guy, two catchers and AT LEAST one at the foot of the stage who has had training in Hypnosis, especially abreactions. I'd let them deal with people who may abreact. Yes I know that's less money for me for hiring extra help, but it's better safe than sorry is ALWAYS been my motto. Just for the RECORD I would NEVER knowingly do any routine that might involve phobias. That's just me. How would YOU deal with that case scenario? Thanks, Ed, (Eddini).
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Bobser...
You have very little experience as a therapist stick to the billets. I have worked with many many clients over 18 years. The emtion is always there of course - the way you work! that's just my point reliving and emotional event doesn't release the emotion. In fact many people think they feel better after they get away from the "therapist". What they feel is relief due to the fact that no one is making them associate and relive and feel the unpleasant feelings they are trying to get away from in the first place. It doesn't suprise me at all that you come up with the telling statement "the emotion is always there". It tells me that you aren't a very good therapist. Let me guess.... You are a know all magician who jumped on the mind reading bandwagon....and has done a basic homestudy course in hypnosis or more likely borrowed it from somebody else. The fact you ask for "scripts" in previous posts really gives it away (in a magic forum)...scripts are a sure sign of an amatuer. Looking for them on a magic forum? Need I say more? As for listening? Well you read posts. The listening is the distortion you create in your head. yours just happens to be a little more distotred than most.. But you are at least entertaining me.. "abreaction doesn't add?" are you sure about that? Then why do people report feeling much worse after taking part in such therapy? Why do people who abreact on stage feel much worse after? Do you understand the nature of gestalts? "Abreation pops the emotion" well that certainly is the theory but not always in practice.. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Eddini
With an experienced hypnotist you would never run out of the venue. That actually happened to me way at the very begining of doing stage hypnosis. Even after training even after having a mentor. It scared the hell out of me. (18 years ago) I did the hot seat patter and this guy jumped up and ran out of the venue. Directly outside the hotel was a harbour about half a mile long. I was terrified he had jumped in to cool himself. He was found up the road a little disorientated but fine. You see these dangers do exist in stage hypnosis even after training. So picking up a book or messing about on here in my opinion is extremely dangerous. needless to say I would never make that mistake again but I also believe it shouldn't revealed how to avoid it on here. Because it is encouraging some people to have a go without proper training. Stage hypnosis is extremely risky esp when you first start out.. |
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bobser Inner circle 4178 Posts |
Wow mindpunisher, looks like I really managed to rattle your cage! You're obviously very upset... sorry.
Tell you what I won't say anymore, that way you can tell yourself "I won!" Better? Bobser. xxx
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Eddini_81976 Inner circle 2183 Posts |
That's fair enough Mind Punisher. How about the other "Profession Hypnotist" here. I know how I first worded the question was too vague, hence my re-wording my question to something SPECIFIC, that way people can know IN DETAIL what you would do & say. So what would you do / say SPECIFICALLY, in the above case?
Respectfully, Ed....Huh?, Ed Who? (Eddini)....HaHaHa, Wowsers, Ooooowww ! P.S. I'm a little "Happy / Silly" tonight.
"Treat Others As You'd Want To Be Treated" - Jesus Christ
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Bobser
You make a lot assumptions. that's why you end up looking silly. Keep them coming! I enjoy your posts.. :) |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
First, let me remind the members that this is <i>not</i> the place to discuss therapeutic modalities, theories and practices. If you want to do that, I suggest that you try some of the hypnosis boards online that are dedicatd to that.
With regards to Eddini's scenario regarding "Snakes on a Stage," my first response is that a responsible hypnotist wouldn't do that routine as the probability of someone having a phobic response is way too high. If, however, someone did have such a reaction to one of the routines in one of my shows (and it did happen a long time ago when a volunteer misunderstood a suggestion regarding a routine involving an audition to play a monster - he thought that there was a monster threatening the group), I always make sure that my volunteers have a solid suggestion that they will NOT leave the stage unless I allow it. I also make sure that they understand that, no matter what they see or hear, they will always be safe during the show. I also tell them that anytime I say the word "freeze," they will instantly stop in their tracks, everything will stop happening, they will become stuck and asleep, standing up. That pretty much covers the issue. If I see someone starting to take off (and you MUST watch your volunteers like a hawk), I simply call out "Freeze!" and that settles the issue. Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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