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itsmagic Inner circle middle earth 1117 Posts |
Is this similar to Doug Malloy's Lean, or a totally different concept all together? Is this even a marketed product?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r0ks2An2F8 This has got to be one of my favorite Cyril illusions. |
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Christopher Starr Inner circle Heart of America 1850 Posts |
I am surprised that this is not for sale somewhere.
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-12 12:37, Christopher Starr wrote: I have seen several variations of this effect performed, but who is credited with it first is the question? Who would own this effect???? Best, Tim |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
I now have two gimmicks...one can be done anywhere, and one has a special something that must be hidden. The gimmick that can be used anywhere would be impossible to market, as everyone's different weight and height would change the logistics dramatically. The one using the special something could be marketed and sold easily.
I've actually started using the second version I made with the hidden something, seeing as it requires no skill and allows me to focus more on routine. I only use the first version if I'm out on the street or just can't hide the special something. Both fool them every time. I have no idea who came up with the concept... It's rare to not know who the creator is for an illusion. All I know is Cyril does it flawlessly, but not sure who created it! Criss Angel, well, you guessed it, camera cuts and stooges. He doesn't have to do this, but chooses to, I assume because it makes it that much more impressive for television. You'll find other kids doing it like Angel on YouTube, but none in front of audiences. Cyril is the only one I've seen pull it off. I've had over 100 emails about the gimmick and many offering to purchase it. God knows I could be making a killing right now, but I am enjoying being one of the few performing it. And as you stated, not sure if I'd technically be ripping anyone off, or who for that matter...lol! |
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Christopher Starr Inner circle Heart of America 1850 Posts |
What a tease! I'd have sent you an email, but I didn't want to be the 101st rejection.
Anyway, I am fairly certain that a guy my size couldn't do it anyway... |
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itsmagic Inner circle middle earth 1117 Posts |
I would love to see your performance, videokideo. I can't blame you for keeping the secret to yourself, but if there's a market for it, then why not release it? Well, sooner or later, someone will market something like this.
Anyone have a video of the Angel version? |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
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itsmagic Inner circle middle earth 1117 Posts |
Thanks, videokideo. I like Cyril's version much better.
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Bryan Gilles Inner circle Northern California 1732 Posts |
Actually, I believe Criss' version was made at Splashes in Las Vegas...
His version is just as you see it performed on the video. He does, however, use stooges as far as having a "random person" perform exactly what he did immediately after he performs it... This whole set-up was kind of overkill, as it wouldn't be practical to perform in a "street magic environment". Just my two cents... -Bryan Gilles |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
Thanks, Bryan, for the info... I must have gotten lucky with my gimmicks, as they are comfortable in wearing. I can see where they maybe didn't go as far as needed, seeing it was for a one time TV trick. I knew I'd be using mine weekly, so spent 5 months fabricating until it could be worn comfortably. To me, it's worth the effect...to others, it may not be.
Thanks again for the info. |
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Patrick Miller New user 90 Posts |
Looks like a modified version of the Lean to me, check Malloy Modern Magic.
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
It's the Lean and Broom Suspension in one....same ideas, with modified gimmicks.
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sperris Special user http://www.Anti-Conjuror.com 881 Posts |
Danny Cole's been doing this for a long time now. Cyril actually got permission from Danny to do it. It is not an available effect to purchase. It's very killer; I mean, c'mon, it's a Danny Cole brainchild we're talking about here...so you gotta see Danny do his version in his act. The audience freaks out, and it's very cool.
DANSPERRY.COM
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
Hi Sperris,
I've seen Danny do it. I thought it was his baby, but seeing Cyril do it made me question it. Thanks for the clarification. Best, Tim |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
Any video links of Danny performing this would be nice...thanks.
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
There is no video of Danny that I know of, but here is a still shot of his floating chair pulling him up out of the reclining position. http://www.dannycole.net/images/pictures......_JPG.htm
Best, Tim |
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sperris Special user http://www.Anti-Conjuror.com 881 Posts |
No worries, Tim, just looking out for my buddies and all... Here's another pic of him sitting. At one point, he actually crosses his legs, so he's only on one foot too...
http://www.dannycole.net/images/pictures/pages/Dbird_JPG.htm
DANSPERRY.COM
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
Thanks for that additional photo.
I had a friend of mine ask me to build him one once, but I told him he'd have to get permission from Danny before I could build it. He contacted Danny and learned it was not for sale. As good as the gimmick is...it's Danny's performance that sells that act so well. Best, Tim |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
My question is... What does it take to have your own version vs. having to get permission from him? I know just because he does a lean-back suspension, he doesn't hold the rights to everything that has to do with leaning back. There are a ton of Super-X style levitations on the market, yet only one person doesn't own the rights to every style.
What I'm getting at is, seeing my gimmick is definitely different than his, as it came from my mind, and for me to guess his exact gimmick would be impossible. So seeing mine is different in design, would I still need permission? This is where I've always been confused. I'm sure the Pendragons didn't get permission from the first guy who cut someone in half just to build their clear sawing. What does it take to be different enough to not need rights? I like to stay ethical, but it's all a grey area to me. |
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The Drake Inner circle 2274 Posts |
Hi Video Kideo,
You ask very good questions, and are indeed in a grey area. The Super X is pretty much public domain, so I don't think anyone has any issues with mods being done to it. The waters get muddy when the effects or gimmicks become too similar. The gimmick we are talking about is pretty basic, and I imagine your gimmick and Danny's are quite close in method and similarity. I am certainly not saying you stole Danny's idea. This happens a lot where two similar effects come out close to each other. The first out of the gate is usually considered the winner. There is an effect on the market today that Walter Blaney designed 50 years ago but never got around to actually building it and working out the kinks. Someone else came up with the exact idea 40 years after Walter, and when Walter contacted them, they confirmed the method was indeed the same. But the other person actually developed the idea first, and Walter acknowledges it is theirs and not his. Permission??? Usually if your idea uses elements created by someone else, it's best to get their permission before implementing it. Your situation falls in the middle there some place. Since you don't want to build/sell them, why not contact Danny and see what can be worked out? Maybe he won't have a problem with you doing it, as long as it's acknowledged the principles are the same and he was first to build and perform it. This is usually a much better way to deal with things than fighting over what is LEGAL vs. ethical. I bet some middle ground can be found. IF Danny says..."Sorry, I'm keeping it for ME only," then you will have to make that decision that so many others creators have had to make and decide to dump your ethics or stay with them. Keep in mind that if you created this, then you will create other things in the future and you'll expect others to respect YOUR work as yours. My advice is to stick with the ethical route, and you'll find it all works out fine in the end. Best, Tim |
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