The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Has anyone seen "Koran Medallion with Luke Jermay" (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
chichi711
View Profile
Inner circle
5810 Posts

Profile of chichi711
Quote:
On 2007-05-18 20:25, Jim-Callahan wrote:
You are a greedy and selfish little meat puppet are you not?

J ack

H.O.A-X


:) Thanks for that. It gave me a good chuckle and I needed that tonight.
Lord Of The Horses
View Profile
Inner circle
5410 Posts

Profile of Lord Of The Horses
I have read all of Luke's latest work and I find it VERY GOOD!

That's all I will say about that.

If it were not for the cafè (as Salsa Dancer wrote) I would have not know about the "medallion" thing.

Still, I personally don't bother to look at it because I have more ways to perform this effect than I will ever need in a lifetime.

But trying to drag Luke in the dust with statements alluding to his present job fees (?) is uncalled for and should have no place in this "medallion" discussion.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
salsa_dancer
View Profile
Inner circle
1935 Posts

Profile of salsa_dancer
I despair with this place sometimes. It does say Koran's Medallion WITH Luke Jermay. Surely he is just doing the demo and Penguin magic are the ones selling the classic effect? Shouldn't we be bashing them instead of Luke?

Is Luke the only one that has presented classics of mentalism in a sales context? I doubt it. As for Bumbacla posting about Luke's once a month gig for $100, I think he is missing the point about being a professional worker.
Looch
View Profile
Inner circle
Off by
3371 Posts

Profile of Looch
Im not sure I agree Salsa, Jermays post was somewhat arrogant, and if the above post was true then it certainly held merit in the context of what was said by Luke.
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
salsa_dancer
View Profile
Inner circle
1935 Posts

Profile of salsa_dancer
I read it more like exasperation than arrogance.
Looch
View Profile
Inner circle
Off by
3371 Posts

Profile of Looch
Either way, not really professional bud...btw I was asleep when you called the other day, not ignoring you.
My Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/
Bookings: https://looch.co.uk/
mystic1
View Profile
Veteran user
342 Posts

Profile of mystic1
Quote:
On 2007-05-18 10:35, chichi711 wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-05-18 08:53, The Mental Lentil wrote:
Luke, is that you?


Lets make that the last one. The joke is old and played and Luke cleared all that up a few posts ago. You may not agree with what Luke is saying, but please give him the respect he deserves. If he says that "ramsay" is the only account he has on the Café how about we respect that until actual proof is provided otherwise. I honestly doubt he has the time or desire to post several thoughts under random names.


Luke, is that you AGAIN ? Smile
espmagic
View Profile
Special user
882 Posts

Profile of espmagic
First, IN MY OPINION, Luke is creative, and his material is good. Trying to figure out "why" someone did something is a fool's errand, since the "why" part doesn't really matter after it's done. (And, no, I'm not calling you all fools. I'm calling you armchair...what was it?) <grin>

Second, the best performance I ever saw of this effect was Copperfield on TV some years ago, where the selected number was imprinted on the medallion. All of the handwritten versions make the end result look cheap, regardless of who is doing the handwriting.

Third, with this latest wave of "new" performers digging up "old" effects, and re-doing the patter, or changing 'this' vanish to 'that' vanish, it should come as no surprise that this was released. It was inevitable. We who are working in the industry should applaud his ability to make money, since those of us who are starving artists can whine about the "art" being ***ized, those who have families to feed will smile in recognition of a good marketing idea, and dig out our old and tattered Tarbel, in hopes of finding the next "bestest, greatest" thing...

My 1.21 cents (it *is* Canada, after all...)


Lee
Tony Iacoviello
View Profile
Eternal Order
13150 Posts

Profile of Tony Iacoviello
Lee

I respect you, and value your friendship and correspondence over the past decade. I agree with you on many things, but this is NOT one of them.

Yes, I agree with your assessment of Luke being creative. In my opinion, he is very creative and that is probably one of the reasons I've been so disappointed over this situation.

Copperfield used Room Service, a very nice adaptation of the Koran effect. Several others have been put out that are wonderful improvements, or advancements in the methodology or presentation. Most recently, John Archer's Collard, which took the basic concept of the effect and adapted it to a wonderful presentational routine.

The Penguin release does just the opposite. It takes the Koran concept, strips out much of what makes it effective, and turns a brilliant and strong piece of mentalism into a puzzle. The props, a plastic poker chip and white label, coupled with its puzzle nature relegate it to "slum magic" status, not unlike many of the Adam's products.

The idea of introducing this classic to a new generation is a nice thought, except that the book where it was published is still available, there are several adaptations (that advance the effect) currently available, I sighted the recent release of Collard above, L&L released Johnny Thompson teaching the classic on his DVD set as well as the recently released DVD set on Standup (released earlier THIS month), and Richard Osterlind has also taught the handling on his DVD series. So offering a version that weakens the plot and saying it was to expose it to a new generation does not quite fit in with reality.

I’ve never said anything bad about Luke Jeremy. I don’t know the young man, but I would not say anything even if I did. What I said here, prior to his posting was that this release saddens me. What I said afterwards dealt with his post, his words and actions, not the person. Unfortunately, we all cannot say the same.

Tony Iacoviello
jasons_mind
View Profile
Loyal user
258 Posts

Profile of jasons_mind
Quote:
On 2007-05-20 15:55, espmagic wrote:
First, IN MY OPINION, Luke is creative, and his material is good. Trying to figure out "why" someone did something is a fool's errand, since the "why" part doesn't really matter after it's done.

Lee


I have to disagree with one sentence here. I believe it is of the utmost importance to understand why we did or do something. If we can have a better understanding of the reasoning behind the why of our behavior, then we are less apt to make those same mistakes again.

Just my two cents,

Jason.
eebie376
View Profile
Elite user
415 Posts

Profile of eebie376
I honestly don't understand all of the negativity towards Luke recently. I personally loved 7 Deceptions and Building Blocks, and I enjoyed Skullduggery and the Coral Fang as well. I haven't purchased any of his latest releases (which people seem to be b*tching about the most).

I can understand saying that someone's products suck, if you feel that way. Whatever. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. What I don't understand is why you would start saying how "fat" Luke has gotten, how "stupid" his clothing is, etc. What's your point? That's childish, petty, and superficial. Who cares if he has his own sense of style? Perhaps Luke would find your performing apparel ridiculous. If he did, I'm sure he would not comment on it as you all have here.

And in terms of releasing Koran Medallion, so what? Osterlind did it, didn't he?? I love both performers, and I don't see why they can not release their own versions of this classic. I feel that if this had been released by any other mentalist or company, most of these criticisms would not be here.

Now I agree, the strength of the Koran Medallion effect lies in the inscription subtlety. The version shown in the demo is not as strong, to my mind. However, Luke stated that he does indeed teach the subtlety in the instructional video.

If you take anything away from this post, please let it be that I think it is way out of bounds to comment on someone's appearance when he is just trying to sell his handling on a freaking mentalism trick. Step away from the keyboard, and remember what we do. We pretend to read people's thoughts. Aren't some of you taking yourselves just a little bit too seriously? If you don't like the product (after purchasing it), say so. Negative reviews are always fine. But don't start saying that Luke is fat, or looks silly. That's stupid.

And no. I'm not Luke. So don't bother with that tired, overused line. I've just gotten irritated enough by reading these posts to make one of my own. This is not the Café that I am used to coming to and reading insightful responses. I think that there is a lot of jealousy and bitterness going on lately, and I wish that it would end so that we could get back to being productive.

Thanks for reading,
Ian.
espmagic
View Profile
Special user
882 Posts

Profile of espmagic
Jason -

I agree that we should try to figureout where our own motivations come from, so that we can avoid making the mistake a second time. But that is if we are looking inwards, upon ourselves. Luke is obviously not, because he does not think he has made a mistake. And here are a bunch of people who think he has.

Tony -

I agree with you, too. It is sad when a classic is taken and made cheap, easy, or however the term "slum magic" requires the process. But I would ask: since Osterlind has done this effect, and Archer has offered a version to the masses, does Jermay's take on the thing make it any different? I understand that Penguin makes stuff both easily affordable and easily accessible, but is this such a bad thing?

For those of us old enough to remember the "classics" as being classic, these new versions of effects are simply tricks. But these tricks may bring a new generation into our fold. And, no, I'm not saying that this is anyone's motivation. Simply put, doing a miracle cheaply is just that. However, we must remember that the terms "miracle" and "cheap" are perspective-oriented, and as soon as Person X says it is one, Person Y will counter and say the opposite. And we, on the outside, get to watch and try to side with those we agree with...

Everyone else -

See someone do this well. Then decide whether Luke's version is as good a presentation that you want to perform. That should be the determining factor, no?


Lee
jasons_mind
View Profile
Loyal user
258 Posts

Profile of jasons_mind
Lee,

I see what you're saying. Someone has to realize the error of their ways or else resistance is futile.

Jason.
Boo Hat
View Profile
New user
4 Posts

Profile of Boo Hat
Tony,

You misuse the term "Slum Magic" to describe this. Slum magic tricks are ones with cheap plastic props where the props are obviously manufactured specifically for the trick.

Yes, a poker chip is not as fancy as a gold medallion - but it's not a cheap imitation poker chip - it's a real one. And using a white label is no different to the original Koran method, so that can't be cheapening things (and as you know, the audience never sees the sticker anyway).

Luke has made some minor variations on the medallion trick: Introducing a casino theme and using a chip instead of a medallion, using the Nyman subtlety for double writing, and using a method for having the chip appear in the pocket without palming it in. Maybe some other stuff you only find out about if you buy the download. He's lost the expensive look of the medallion, and it's appearance from inside a box.

I don't think there's anything bad about the updating of the theme - a gold medallion theme would look pretty out of place in the hands of most performers. Sure, using a gold medallion or a stuffed dog turns the effect into more of a showcase performance piece than using a poker chip - but you can up or downscale most tricks in similar manner. And from what Luke has posted it seems like he includes the presentational subtleties in the proper download.

So what we've got is an OK version of a classic that has been given the performers own twist. Not the greatest piece of originality ever - the sort of thing that used to get published in magazines, but is increasingly being rushed out to DVD by aspiring magic money-makers everywhere. I've not seen Osterlind's version on his ETM series - but I don't think his version adds any more originality than Luke's version.

So what's the beef here? Is it a general point about releasing minor variants and selling them (in which case, many, many people are guilty and Luke shouldn't be the only one singled out)? Or is it the association with Penguin and selling magic classics to the great unwashed?

BH
Tony Iacoviello
View Profile
Eternal Order
13150 Posts

Profile of Tony Iacoviello
Boo

What we have is a very a cheap version of the effect that exposes the subtleties and turned the effect into the puzzle of how the magician wrote the number on the poker chip while it was in his pocket. You mention the use of the dw subtle recently repopularized by Nyman, it too is exposed because of the exposure of the writing on the back of the chip. And yes, as you probably guessed, I disagree with you on your second half of the definition of Slum Magic, the pieces don't have to be manufactured specifily for the trick, they can be adapted, and they don't have to be plastic (i.e. Nickles to Dimes). In my opinion, this fits the bill.

As for Richard's version, it was not Richard's version. He taught it as part of the EASY TO MASTER MENTAL MIRACLES series.

As I said in the initial post, the cheapening of this piece as in the release by Penguin saddened me. My other comments were in direct response to comments made in Luke's posting. He stated that he released it to help inform a new generation of a classic, and several other points that do not match the current state of reality as I stated in my previous post. So unless you are responding for Luke and are his Boo, your replies are not really warranted as Luke is going to respond to each of the points I made as soon as he wakes up last Friday morning (18 May).

Tony Iacoviello
Alexander Marsh
View Profile
Inner circle
England
1190 Posts

Profile of Alexander Marsh
I have kind of stayed away from this topic but as I don't really have anything to do this morning I thought I would post a few observations.

First observation is that most of the negative comments seem more like people with personal vendettas against Luke. People who for some reason, best known to somebody else, do not like Luke.

My second observation I fear may cause more madness.

There have been many comments that claim Luke exposes the subtleties. That he had made it obvious that it was DW. And that it weakens the effect by no longer being 'inscribed'.

Recently a You Tube video clip of Koran performing the effect was posted. I have never read or seen the effect before. The only thing I was every aware of about the effect was that it involved DW, and I knew this due to a comment on Andy Nyman's DVD.

When I watched Koran perform the effect I thought it was obvious that he was using DW and that he palmed the 'medallion' in to his pocket and that it was probably not really inscribed on there, it was merely clever use of words (a bit like saying “The word PRINTED here.” Are you referring to PRINTED by a machine or by HAND?!).

Most of the comments on this bored are, I feel, moot points.

Comments about Luke’s weight are disgusting and make me sad that I am even associated with the people who make said comments.
David Numen
View Profile
Inner circle
1822 Posts

Profile of David Numen
I have no doubt that there are some here who don't like Luke or are stirring for the sake of stirring but I think in the main, on this thread, you will find most critics are just plain sad and disappointed that he has released what seems to be a pretty inferior version of a great classic effect for a knockdown price!

Like I said before, it's a shame Luke obviously doesn't value the work of those who have walked before him quite as much as he values his own releases otherwise this would have been $150 to 25 lucky buyers as opposed to less than $10 to anybody interested enough to buy it.
jasons_mind
View Profile
Loyal user
258 Posts

Profile of jasons_mind
Quote:
On 2007-05-23 09:33, Tony Iacoviello wrote:

Boo, your replies are not really warranted as Luke is going to respond to each of the points I made as soon as he wakes up last Friday morning (18 May).

Tony Iacoviello

Now, that's funny! Smile I too am looking forward to the replies.

I have nothing personal against Luke and have actually only bought one of his books. I just find his ego to currently not match is behavior. As you can see, one of the world's foremost experts in psychology and suggestion also has his verion of the dribble pass and the Collector's for sale over at Penguin. The two seem contradictory, that's all.
The Mental Lentil
View Profile
Regular user
125 Posts

Profile of The Mental Lentil
All I can say it must have been one hell of a party.
Dhal is murder
harishjose
View Profile
Special user
932 Posts

Profile of harishjose
Quote:
On 2007-05-23 09:09, Boo Hat wrote:
Tony,

You misuse the term "Slum Magic" to describe this. Slum magic tricks are ones with cheap plastic props where the props are obviously manufactured specifically for the trick.

Yes, a poker chip is not as fancy as a gold medallion - but it's not a cheap imitation poker chip - it's a real one. And using a white label is no different to the original Koran method, so that can't be cheapening things (and as you know, the audience never sees the sticker anyway).

Luke has made some minor variations on the medallion trick: Introducing a casino theme and using a chip instead of a medallion, using the Nyman subtlety for double writing, and using a method for having the chip appear in the pocket without palming it in. Maybe some other stuff you only find out about if you buy the download. He's lost the expensive look of the medallion, and it's appearance from inside a box.

I don't think there's anything bad about the updating of the theme - a gold medallion theme would look pretty out of place in the hands of most performers. Sure, using a gold medallion or a stuffed dog turns the effect into more of a showcase performance piece than using a poker chip - but you can up or downscale most tricks in similar manner. And from what Luke has posted it seems like he includes the presentational subtleties in the proper download.

So what we've got is an OK version of a classic that has been given the performers own twist. Not the greatest piece of originality ever - the sort of thing that used to get published in magazines, but is increasingly being rushed out to DVD by aspiring magic money-makers everywhere. I've not seen Osterlind's version on his ETM series - but I don't think his version adds any more originality than Luke's version.

So what's the beef here? Is it a general point about releasing minor variants and selling them (in which case, many, many people are guilty and Luke shouldn't be the only one singled out)? Or is it the association with Penguin and selling magic classics to the great unwashed?

BH


Lu..

Mmmm. I wanted to ask you something... Dang it, I forgot...

HJ
To believe is Magic.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Has anyone seen "Koran Medallion with Luke Jermay" (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.16 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL