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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Convincing Control To Top (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

James F
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When I first heard the idea of a Convincing Control (as in THE convincing card control, not just any control that is convincing.) bringing a card to the top, I was very curious. I was unable to find a method for this nor anyone that knows how to do it. I think I finally found a video (posted on the Café a while back) but the control is done face up. So it really wasn't like the Convincing Card Control but more like a cull done face up with a tilt of the hands (to hid the stolen card). I think this was called Marlo's movable card pass. I'm not sure on the name.

Anyway, so I wanted a Convincing Card Control that brought the card to the top but still looked basically like the original. I'd like to know if this idea has any merit and if it does, where has it been published before. (Everything has been done before lol)

The cards are spread leaving a double when the spread is broken in the right hand. This is tilted up and the card is shown. The spread is brought back to the deck in the left hand and the cards are switched as in the normal Convincing Card Control. (The selection is slid under the spread). What I do now is move my right hand away while holding onto the selection. It's brought out from under the spread and pulled away briskly. The hand (with the selection) goes back to the top of the deck and grabs a chunk of cards and move away to the right with them. This is done again adding more cards to the right hand. So it is done three times above the outjog. (single card, group, group). These cards are left and the spread is broken three times below the out jogged card. The motivation for this is something along the lines of "You could have chosen any card... From here, here, it doesn't matter" or something like "You could have returned your card here, here, or anywhere else... But you chose right here and we left your card sticking out so we can follow it" Anything along those lines to motivate the actions. This would bring the card to the top. Its basically just a bluff at the beginning. Playing off one card as a block. If done smoothly you really cant tell and it seems to look good in a mirror.

Any comments?
vinsmagic
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Eternal Order
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James I am not sure about how your convincing control works
pm me and ill send a DEMO OF MY my technique called the "convincing gun control"
the selected card remains pertruding from the deck and card is now pushed into the deck by the spectator yet the chosen card is on the top of the pack,
ther is no shifting of the packets or cutting of the cards.
James do you have a demo of your work I would love to see it because is hard to visualize from the written page

vinny
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Andy the cardician
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James,

are you talking about a bottom steal?

best
Andy
Cards never lie
Daegs
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No, he is stealing it from under the spread while the spread is held by just the left hand.

I understand what you are doing, and you are right it actually does look fooling.

I continue moving blocks over even past the card so that the the whole deck is shifted in that manner.

The optical retention of your hand moving away from the top is great, and the following up actions perfectly cover the steal.



I really like the idea, I definitely think it could be used in a routine, but I'm not sure that its better than something like Earick's Bow-to-Stern control which has a "convincing" aspect, or even Lee Asher's "Losing Control" done with the convincing outjog aspect.


Played casually it definitely flies and works well, but I think the "perfect" version would not involve moving any blocks of cards around, but that may be a pipe dream.


everyone should definitely read the post and learn the move, its very killer!!!
Cohiba
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James:
This sounds like Troy Hooser's control in his book, DesTROYer's. I don't have it on me right now, but I think it's called Slipstream, or something.
Cohiba
Andy the cardician
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I need more coffee . . . cause I still not really grip this.

The LH holds the pack, with the dummy outjogged. The selection is under the spread, carried away by the RH, leaving all the cards on the deck.

The RH with the selection continues to move to the right and back to the deck to grab more cards. How can the selection be concealed?
I guess the selection is face down in the palm of the RH, so how is it added to the LH pack?

Andy
Cards never lie
Daegs
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It isn't in the palm, nor is it concealed.

As you bring the selection away from under the spread, it is acting like you are grabbing the top card.

The move should look like you pulled a block of cards from the top when its really just the selection, and then the action of going back to grab more blocks and more blocks is covering the initial action.

So you move right hand to the right with the selection(as if it was the top card or top packet) then back to the pack to grab more, then more, etc.
James F
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Vinny,

I will definitely send you a PM and check your control out. Sounds awesome. Thanks for the offer. You're generous as always. Further down in this post I'll explain the control idea I had in a little more detail so you can get a better visualization of what I'm saying. It's hard to write out and I can definitely see the difficulty in understanding what I'm saying through words alone. I wish I had a video but I'm in the process of moving out of my apartment and don't have my desktop. Sadly, it is the computer with the camera and video software.

Andy,

I think Daegs answered your question and explained the move as I am describing it very well, but I'm also going to re type it out in detail at the end of this post. You can read that if you are still a little unsure about what I mean.

Cohiba,

Thanks a lot for the reference. I don't have that source to check (although Ill try and get my hands on it). If you could look it up sometime and PM me or post on here, that would be great. If not, thanks for the reference, I appreciate it very much.

----------------------------

So this is what I'm saying in more detail. I don't know if this is needed because Daegs explained it in other words pretty well... but just in case.

Perform the convincing card control but don't close the spread or bring the card to the bottom. What you want it to look like is this: The right hand grabs a block from the top of the spread and moves to the right. (separating it from the deck) It returns to the spread and grabs more cards and does the same. This is done one more time. (all above the outjogged card.) The cards are then left and the cards are split three times below the outjogged card. (held by the right hand and lifted away from the bottom of the spread in the left hand.) This is done while saying "You could have had any card... Any of these, or these, or even some of these at the bottom" or "you could have places your card anywhere... here, here, or even down here. But you chose to place your card right here and we left it sticking out so you can keep track of it" Something like that.

However, what happens the first time you take a block from the top, you really just slide the selection out from under the spread and to the right. You are playing it off as the top block from the top of the deck. You then return to the top, adding the selection on top, and grabbing another block. Then you return and grab another. These are left and you go to the bottom and break the spread three times. (With the patter to justify this.) This brings the selection to the top.

This bluff isn't hidden. They see you put the card on top. They are supposed to think that's a block of cards you took off the top of the deck.

If that doesn't make sense to anyone and Daegs explanation doesn't make sense, I can't really explain it any better than that without a camera.

If anyone else has a reference of where this may have appeared before, please let me know.

Oh and Daegs,

I agree with everything you said. It's definitely not as convincing as Losing Control or Bow To Stern (I love both of those controls.) but it could have its place I suppose. I could see it possibly fooling a magician into thinking I brought the card to the bottom while I really brought it to the top. However, for lay audience, Bow to Stern or Losing control would probably be much more direct.

I'd love to find a control that works like a CCC but went to the top. I think Losing Control is really the closest one. Thanks for all the comments.
dafin77
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This thread has gotten me curious about Losing Control and Bow to Stern. I do the Convincing Control (Frank Simon's version) already. What do you recommend for learning one or the other? And which one should I look at first?
David Finkelstein
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Andy the cardician
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I finally got it. Someone hit me . . .

Thanks a lot everybody for your patience.

Andy
Cards never lie
Daegs
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Quote:
This thread has gotten me curious about Losing Control and Bow to Stern. I do the Convincing Control (Frank Simon's version) already. What do you recommend for learning one or the other? And which one should I look at first?


I only mention those because they start out with a spread/outjog and can leave a card outjogged from the middle while bringing the card to the top.

This is really all about personal preferences, you could very well simply do a double lift and then place the supposed selection outjogged from the middle.

The sources would be Earick's book and Asher's pamphlet/dvd for losing control.... I would look at Earick's book first because if you don't have it you are missing out on a lot more than the bow-to-stern.

Ultimately we perform effect and not sleights, so you should examine the situation you want to use a Convincing Control to the top and find the best solution for that effect rather than trying to find "the best" control to top and then use it in all your effects.
Jonathan P.
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In his "control" DVD (from the video serie), Alan Ackerman does a Convincing control to the top.
He does, if I remember correctly, while faning the faces toward the spectators, but not face-up (more like a vertical display toward the spectators).

Also, I guess that there no "dummy" card left protruding, since the face would be seen. The culling action takes place with the thumbs, and to the top, at the rear of the pack (your side of the spread).

I hope this makes sense.

And yes, Troy Hooser has a convincing control like the one talked about here, in which he takes the deck in RH, in several chunks, a move by which he loads the selection to the top or at any position in the deck (in a sandwich, for instance).

Jonathan.
T. Joseph O'Malley
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This would be better placed in the "secret sessions", wouldn't it?
tjo'
SIX
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Hey guys,

I have come up with a version for the convincing control to the top..Which I offered to the Café members..James please pm me your email and I will send you the write up..

SIX
closeupcardician
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Justin Teeman Moore, OK
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You Should Check out Jason Dean's Non-Convincing Control. Mimics the standard actions well and the principle card ends up on top.
"Magic as art cannot live without love. Love of some kind. There are novels without love, other arts without love. But there can be no magic without love." - Rodney Reyes
Paul
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A Convincing Control to the top is NOT a new idea, I started to use one after coming across it in "Marlo Without Tears" when it was first published, and that was a few decades ago.

Paul.
Fresh
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Vinny's Convincing Gun Control is pretty awesome. If you dislike cutting (e.g. double undercut, which is terrible for a control), if you are looking for something new or if you just need a really convincing (pun intended somewhat) control to the top, look no further.
jalal12321
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I have a mixture between a Convincing control, and Lee Asher's Losing Control. Which I call The Venice Control, I've showed it to a few people and most think it's cool.
Shodan
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Outjog as in convincing control, then square the deck, S*** S******g the card as you do so, adding it to the top of the deck. The X card in the middle needs to be slightly jogged to the left and you need to keep your right fingers above the X card, but it works nicely and the appearance is simply that you've outjogged the selection and squared the deck.
"You don't go up to strangers with a stick and come at their head...introduce yourself first, then come at them with a stick." - David Williamson
Jaz
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I may be wrong but this all sounds too fussy to me.
A while back I saw an online video demo of a Harvey Rosenthal more direct control, to top, from a spread. I just looked for it without much luck.

Anyone else know of this??
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