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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » No cards allowed in restaurant (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MagicMarker
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> Well exactly, if you own a bar/cafe etc. woudl you like to even risk of getting > in trouble? I mean try to palce your selfs on other end of the table.

It depends on whether the management are genuinely afraid of oppressive government and policing, or whether they just don't like people doing anything other than buying food and getting the heck out. Motive is important here.

If one restaurant in town has this fear, but everywhere else is happy to have you, then you may be dealing with an isolated case of paranoia, or a manager who wants to get you out the door. In which case you simply don't eat there any more.

If a lot of restaurants in a state or city have the same rules then it may be that you are dealing with an overly oppressive or beuraucratic government or policing issue. Perhaps someone with a little too much power and too much time on their hands.

In this case the approach to the customer should be along the lines of "I'm really sorry about this, I know you're not gambling, but the crazy people who run this town have made it illegal to even have cards in public".

If you hear that from more than a few restaurants then you can decide whether you want to live in that town/state, or move to somewhere a little more liberal.

> Well you are not allowed to take out gun in public places anyway, you keep
> it concealed. So your example was wrong, no one would ever ask you to
> leave plaace just becuase you have cards, they would just asked it to
> conceale it and don't place it on the table.

I wasn't making a direct comparison with taking out a gun in public, but the fact that states make it legal to carry guns but illegal to gamble does suggest strange priorities.

Given the choice of sitting in a restaurant with some people playing poker, or some people with concealed weapons I know which one I'd prefer, but perhaps I'm the one with crazy priorities.

I really don't understand the fascination with preventing gambling. There are even efforts to prevent people from playing poker on their computers over the internet. It's a bit baffling.

-Rd
mrunge
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I don't think the law applies to a magician who is a paid entertainer doing a few card tricks. Magicians and bars somehow seem to go together like that.

What they DO get nervous about, and rightly so since they could loose their liquor license, is when a "patron," or customer, brings out the cards and things start happening between the customers. The owners would rather head it off from the beginning that let things get started and build from there.

It's more about being safe than anything. Given the way the laws are written and enforced, they just can't take a chance of being put out of business over something like that.

Mark.
MagicMarker
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> What they DO get nervous about, and rightly so since they could loose
> their liquor license, is when a "patron," or customer, brings out the
> cards and things start happening between the customers.

I guess I got lucky and hit on a part of the country where this isn't the case.

I'd take issue with your "and rightly so" comment. Given how rarely it happens and the very strong liklihood that anyone gambling is more likely to do it at home than in a bar or restaurant, I'd have thought the right thing to do would be check if the customers are actually gambling or just doing card tricks.

I have a certain amound of sympathy for the bar staff and management who have to live with that kind of threat hanging over their heads, but it's caution taken to the extreme. Remember we're talking about a situation in which nothing has been done wrong, and no effort is made to find out if anything is done wrong.

Anyhow, we have our answer, if asked to put away the cards, get up and leave. If all the bars/restaurants in your area have the same policy then find somewhere else to live, or learn sponge magic. Perhaps we should create a map of the US to indicate the magician friendly areas.

-Rd
Chris Henderson
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Just explain to them that the one thing more inherent in all gambling than even cards...is money. So, therefore, by their own definition all of the money in their register is illegal, since it can be used for gambling. Offer to dispose of their illegal money for them or else you will place them under citizen's arrest.

Then continue on with your card tricks.
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"

--Gerry Spence
Chris Henderson
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Alternately, when they give the lame excuse that it is because they serve alcohol, you could gasp, "You mean the same alcohol used in 100% of all drunk driving deaths?! You are under arrest for accessory to attempted vehicular homicide!"
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"

--Gerry Spence
MagicMarker
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The references earlier to Alcohol confused me.
Is there an assumption that one has to be drunk to gamble?
What has their serving of alcohol got to do with the law? Is gambling legal in establishments that don't serve alcohol?

Anyone got any info?

-Rd
gadfly3d
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P

"Gil,
Did you just research Michigan or did you happen to include other states as well?"

I did Michigan and the two border states, Indiana and Ohio. I doubt any state has a law banning cards, but much in this area is administrative rulings and all bets are off in that regard.

Gil Scott
RJ Hunt
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Quote:
On 2007-05-16 22:39, James_Lee wrote:
I was curious if anyone else has had this problem. I was out to eat with my wife and a friend, pulled out a deck of cards and was doing some magic, the waitress told us we couldn't have cards out in the restaurant or on the table because they served alcohol. They said they could be fined or shut down if they were caught. any other magicians in Ohio or anywhere else have this problem or know of a law about this. We had to either put them away or leave.

James Lee


Maybe it's because of the Craps and Poker tables in the basement...You know the ol saying, "Liquor in the front...Poker in the rear"...hahahahaha!!!

I bet something happen at that establishment one time and they are on thin ice with the ABC...sounds like my kinda place. I know that when I was playing ball in Cleavland there were a few spots that we would hang out at long after last call. And we were not drinking coffee trying to sober up. Sometimes there would be more people parting after 2AM than were there during normal business hours...I did'nt like Cleavland too much back then, but I will say this, They know how to party...Yup, Cleavland Rocks!!!

Later,

RJ
MagicMarker
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I base my statements on experience. Since March 2006 I have eaten in Restaurants almost every single evening, and many days I also had lunch in restaurants, Mostly in Florida, but other parts of the States too including Atlanta, DC, New York, Nevada, California, and I've probably forgotten a few places along the way.

From 2004 to 2007 I had a number of shorter trips to the US in which I ate in restaurants every evening. I would say overall you are talking about close to 1000 visits to restaurants over 3 years. I have NEVER, Not once, seen ANYONE else other than myself with a pack of cards. I have been asked a couple of times by staff if I'm a magician, no-one has EVER asked me to put them away. In one restaurant I was sitting at the bar, the barman took out his own deck from behind the bar and showed me a trick.

This suggests to me that card playing in restaurants/bars is not a huge problem. If there are restaurants where people are playing cards at all they are the exception, and playing for money is the exception to the exception.

Perhaps I'm just visiting the right parts of America, if so I'm glad at my good fortune.


If something is illegal then people are more likely to do it in private than in public, that's just common sense. We can dig out sales of poker tables, chips, decks and books on poker and compare it to convictions for public gambling to see if gambling happens in public or private, but I don't think it would be very interesting reading.

All I suggested was that assuming someone with cards is gambling is a bad assumption. It's far more likely that they are doing something else, and given the rarity of the situation it shouldn't be hard to check it out rather than have a blanket ban.

If the person with the cards shows you a trick and appears to be getting the other people at the table to pick a card, then that's different to seeing money change hands and cards being dealt to multiple people.

I'm sorry if my reasoning isn't up to scratch. You are of course free to put the opposing view and take issue with anything I say.
-Rd
tedski
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And another coin magician is born Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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Ach! Please no! Let them do spongeballs and a bowl routine please!
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tedski
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JT - are you going to the dark side....
Jonathan Townsend
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IMHO if you are working for tips it just seems odd to fuss over your collection of silver coins.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Andy the cardician
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Well, you can start with the line "for the next couple of tricks I need some coins and some bills." A sure keep . . .
Cards never lie
tedski
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Indeed! Some quarters, couple of bills and you're off...
Jonathan Townsend
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Hmmm maybe more folks will learn the trick where you make a stack of quarters on the back of a volunteer's hand and a cone from a borrowed bill and put your magic penney on top and...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Andy the cardician
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Change a 100$ bill into a 1$ bill and then apologise, stating that you are still learing via a mail-course, and the course of turning the bill back is yet to arrive.
Cards never lie
Josh Riel
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A private establishment should be able to make decisions it deems necessary. Even if it means all the card magicians in the world couldn't eat there. Has anyone ever wondered how many stacks of seven one could get on a McDonald's table?

If I had my druthers I would ban clowns from restaurants. I am the only person I have seen (Mirrors you know) with cards in restaurants, but I have seen several clowns.

Who wants to watch "It" scaring the life out of a bunch of screaming kids, while at the same time trying tho choke down some stew meat and tendon they billed as steak begging god himself to deliver you a beer before you lose control and attempt the "Cards as weapons" thing on the waitress who is having a long and funny conversation with some dufus in the back? The dufus who you are certain is holding your beer.



So I guess I'd just like to see restaurants banned. I'll play with my cards at home
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Diavo
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There's clearly no law in Maryland about cards at establishments that serve alcohol. I've been to many restaurants and done card magic for my waitresses with nothing but smiles.
A couple of months ago my bestfriend & I were at a Damon's messing around with cards, did tricks for our waitress. She brought over a buss boy and another waitress to watch us, which turned into more [most!] of the wait-staff, the bartender from the other side of the joint, and the manager for a few tricks. We even incorporated these two kids from the adjoining table to help us out.
With the 2 of us alternating back & forth, we were doing magic for about an hour! [Awkward because WE were the ones sitting, with our audience standing...]

The manager came over a little while later with a slip of white paper folded in half long ways and a Bic lighter. He said to us something along the lines of "Well, I don't do any card magic, but I do know this one fire trick." Our first thought of course was "Flash paper?" He lit the paper on fire and it burned for a moment and he said "That was your check." Our jaws dropped!!!! He said he wanted to do something to thank us for entertaining his staff and the patrons. We left our waitress a very large tip. "What comes around goes around." =)

So yeah, no law in Maryland. ;P

--Diavo Smile
I'm not just a magician, I'm an interpreter of Reality.
Underground, above ground, whatever. I don't need a label, thanks.
C-Taylor
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In My state Its not really a problem, although with all the casino's around I understand the gambling side. The problem we have most the time an get asked to put things away is when they think we are playing drinking games. No cards no quarters on the table. If were turning tricks though it doesn't matter. We meet an session at bars and restruants all the time an have never had a problem.
"theres a lot of good card magic in that book, unfortunately you have to have skill to do most of it." Smile
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