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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Will this do damage to magic or Criss Angel? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Drew Manning
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The more we all talk about him, the better it is for him. I don't wish him any harm or to see him fail. I admit that for the amount of bank he's pulling in, I can't say that I wouldn't do the same thing.

It is true more people know about CA than DB. Even lay people are starting to get wise to CA's stunts.I was talking about the show we're working on in the off topic section of another non magic forum I belong to and someone asked me about CA. A friend of mine who is a non magi said something to the effect of he thought we were talking about magicians and wanted to know how CA name came into it.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-05-31 17:37, Living Illusions wrote:
Danny I disagree with you, Criss is NOW a bigger name amongst lay people that Blaine. Perhaps I feel that way cause of the demographics we perform for and are around most the time. But everywhere we go around the country, they are talking about Criss. They know more about Criss, than they do what's his name...which is what they almost always say.

He even shows up in the tabloids...whether you like him or not, people know him and are paying attention.


Kevin


Within that very spacific market yes people know him. Outside it, not so many.

Almost EVERYONE knows Copperfield, and Blaine is indeed vanishing from the landscape.

Keep in mind the blitz on right now for Criss as his new show opens and the A&E is in the third season. BASIC cable by the way. Blaine mya have reached more people with his first special on ABC than Criss has ever had watch him on A&E, just a number fact really.

Point is even WITH the blitz on, hardly anyone outside a very spacific target, and magicians know the guy. Travel through the center of the country, maybe people know just enough to be appauled.

That being said I will say again, I hope he does well. I hope he ends up enjoyng mainstream success and I hope he has a long run with huge crowds in Vegas. He has worked hard and this is impossible to deny.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jazz
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Hey chichi, I didn´t mean to imply you were one of those. Nope, just that I as well know of some people that think the same. Again not a huge number, but a bunch.

I think DB´s manager team must come with something new pretty soon, or CA will complete erase him of the map.
santos
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THIS IS IN THE WRONG POST! NOT GRAND ILLUSIONS...
videokideo
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Criss uses some sort of video cuts, effects, or stooging 90% of the time. I never thought Id see the day where a bunch of magicians say, "hey, that's ok in my book". What happened to actually performing the tricks that you claim to do with lots of hard work and practice?

The up side to me is knowing that if you stand CA next to me and many others on here on the street, we'd kick the crap out of him seeing we actually perform the magic... weve had no choice but to learn he tricks without the aid of video.

Makes me wonder how little talent there is out there when the guy getting all the tv time really has little if any. Had I known blaine and angel's work wouldnt be pitchforked by the magic society, Id pull this stunt many many years ago. Many of us have been doing street magic since we were kids. On the streets, in bars, point being all in front of unknown spectators at any given time. My teachers always looked down on those who couldn't really perform. Now many look up to it..sad.

I said it before.. his new live show with the dancing men in spandex will make him a god again. But without all the swinging clowns, my guess is he'd bomb. Just another distraction and tactic to hide the lack of talent.
Nell
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Admittedly, I did not read this entire thread, so someone may have touched on this already. Also, I have not seen every episode, or even most of the episodes of Mindfreak; however, never once have I heard a claim of "no camera tricks" or "this shot will not cut away"...the typical pre-magic spiel that almost every conventional filmed magic show/special has. The audience only assumes it to be the case...
"A trick may be very good...but...the illusionist must be better than the trick." -René Lavand
Drew Manning
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He's made those tpye of comments befroe, but not on everyshow.

The things that CA is doing that he's getting the most press for like the building levitation may involver the use of some CGI, but not every effect he does employs that method.

His coin matrix is a real magic routine, as is his swallowing needles and PK touch and those are just the ones that I can recall off the top of my head. We all know he is using some stuff that is impossible in "the real world" but he is by no means strictly a product of clever editing.

His Goth type style may not appeal to eveyone, but I venture to say his name has a lot more mainstream recognition than you would think. Next time you're in a group of non magicians, mention Lance Burton and CA and see who reacts and notices the name. That's no diss on LB as he is my favorite, but even though he is more "real" and more successful, IMO than CA, his name is not as well known in the general populace.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
wardini
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I'm not a big fan of CA but he must be doing something right to get where he is today.

Personally I dislike the use of camera tricks and stooges in TV magic but I can also appreciate that with the commonplace use of hi-definition home recording and easy freeze frame and analysis it becomes harder to achieve 'clean' effects by 'traditional' methods.

I also expect that there's huge pressure by the TV companies to 'go that extra mile.'
Adam Milestone
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Camera tricks should never be used to accomplish an illusion. DC was mentioned, but the only ones that I believe were actual camera tricks were the searchlights in the statue and the Grand Canyon seemed to have a couple of shots that didn't look to authentic, but as far as I know that's it. I've read TOF may have had touch ups, but as far as I know they weren't used as a method. Stooges are just another gimmick and gimmicks are fine.
Nell
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DC's Grand Canyon and CA's building levitation are pretty much the same thing. It's what is out of the frame which makes it happen. CA could have done that all in one shot, but like most film/television, the editors pick the parts that look the best. How many people truly believed either of them was levitating such a great distance, anyhow? It is an illusion. And, I'd also like to add that most of CA's acts that I hear people talking about, now, are more classic magic pieces(maybe not in presentation, mind you). The 2nd season of his show seems slightly less camera-gimmicky, or at least a little more balanced.
"A trick may be very good...but...the illusionist must be better than the trick." -René Lavand
Gerry Walkowski
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Years ago I remember reading in Tops, or was it the New Tops, where someone was at one of the filming sessions for David Copperfield's show when he made a baby elephant appear from an empty box. According to the person who was there they showed the box empty, and then the baby elephant was brought out and placed into the box. David told the audience that they were to act surprised when he opened the box and that later on, during a different film session, they would actually produce the elephant. Yeah, right!

I also seem to recall a forward levitation which many said was physically impossible, at least back then. Everyone said it was careful camera editing that made it look like a miracle.

It's this kind of nonsense that made me lose interest in Mr. Copperfield A LONG TIME AGO.

Gerry
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2007-06-02 12:28, Nell wrote:
DC's Grand Canyon and CA's building levitation are pretty much the same thing. It's what is out of the frame which makes it happen. CA could have done that all in one shot, but like most film/television, the editors pick the parts that look the best. How many people truly believed either of them was levitating such a great distance, anyhow? It is an illusion. And, I'd also like to add that most of CA's acts that I hear people talking about, now, are more classic magic pieces(maybe not in presentation, mind you). The 2nd season of his show seems slightly less camera-gimmicky, or at least a little more balanced.


Levitating such a great distance? How about "at all"? Let alone a great distance.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Hitchhiker
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Quote:
On 2007-06-02 20:34, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-06-02 12:28, Nell wrote:
DC's Grand Canyon and CA's building levitation are pretty much the same thing. It's what is out of the frame which makes it happen. CA could have done that all in one shot, but like most film/television, the editors pick the parts that look the best. How many people truly believed either of them was levitating such a great distance, anyhow? It is an illusion. And, I'd also like to add that most of CA's acts that I hear people talking about, now, are more classic magic pieces(maybe not in presentation, mind you). The 2nd season of his show seems slightly less camera-gimmicky, or at least a little more balanced.


Levitating such a great distance? How about "at all"? Let alone a great distance.



When DC did it ideals and expectations were different, now it's just childs play........
Drew Manning
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The long and short of it is that 99.9% of people KNOW it's all a trick of some sort. Does it really matter if someone flies on wires and uses an editing trick to cover the wires or if some one uses a state of the art computerized tool and proper lights in the theatre to mask the workings?

I don't think so. Every one knows it's the illusion of flight. I think with TV it is much easier to edit the effect to look a certain way than it is to properly present it in a theatre, but every one still knows we can't levitate. If we could, we'd all be consultants to the Dept. of Defense, not magicians.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
Adam Milestone
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The appearing elephent was on MoDC 6, the same special as the Canyon levitation and the levitation was the first thing the TV audience saw with no claims being made at all. After the Giraffe illusion is when the no CT line comes in so no claims were made regarding the Canyon and CT so if they used it's not like he was saying one thing and doing another. That's why he did it first as the big opener; it was a throwaway and he knew it he did one more illusion that done withuout CT to space it a bit so the no CT line wasn't right AFTER the levitation. The appearing elephant was acommlished with the same method as The Big Black Box and Things that Go Bump in the Night as far as I can tell, but who really knows for certain. I just don't see DC using out and out CT and editing to accomplish the illusion, angles maybe, but not CT except for Portal I suppose, which BTW after seeing nine times I still can't understand fully how some of it's done. Which DC illusions in particular, other than the ones mentioned, do you think use CT as the method? Even if DC did use them once or twice early in his carreer as far as I can remember those were the only ones that stepped over the line and he had the good sense to stop I hope Criss will too. If he doesn't that can only hurt magic on TV as people have accepted that it would look the same if they were part of the audience. If we betray that then at least some will be convinced everything is a CT, but then a number of them already do! LOL!

Have a look at the opening of the Canyon special.

. http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-3054008430023321613
Phil J.
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Will these videos damage magic? No more than the Masked magician TV series. Ask anyone who watched it to explain any of the tricks exposed and I'll bet they can't.

Will these videos damage CA? Of course not. The public accept that magicians use mirrors, sleight of hand, etc to achieve miracles. To most people CGi is just another weapon in the magicians arsenal. The only people who won't accept these videos for what they are are the ones who believe that CA really can levitate or vanish in mid-air. For these mis-guided souls nothing will convince them otherwise.
You were born original... Don't die a copy Smile
Jazz
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Of course everyone knows it´s a trick (well except some goofs, that really believe he has "sold his soul"). To use wires, mirrors, etc, that has been part of magic forever. To use CGI, then I think that´s crossing the line. Magic is supposed to happen live, not CGI effects like in a movie.
Adam Milestone
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Can't believe I'm gonna poke DC rather than CA, but DC did say he was heavly influenced by movies! LOL! Smile
Nell
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Quote:
On 2007-06-02 20:34, Dannydoyle wrote:

Levitating such a great distance? How about "at all"? Let alone a great distance.

This was the essence of my point... I suppose my phrasing was a bit off, but yes, indeed, at all...
"A trick may be very good...but...the illusionist must be better than the trick." -René Lavand
RSD
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How would magicians feel if the Masked Magician came back and exposed Angel?
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