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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » Will this do damage to magic or Criss Angel? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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TWOCAN
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Quote:
On 2007-05-27 21:49, Lance Richardson wrote:
I must say this is VERY well done and should make the lay people think.
So the question is who will this damage?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baHxmkiuptg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRybVvTR9......;search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQeTmqQHL......;search=

TV TV TV ITS Been fooling people since it was invented. If some people believe what they see on TV Than they deserve to be fooled.
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Slim King
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You've convinced me...they deserve to be fooled! Smile
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Drew Manning
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I don't think it's about being deserved to be fooled. The job of the magician is to fool, so that has nothing to do with TV, so much as it does good magic.
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

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ibm_usa
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Quote:
On 2007-05-28 19:50, Gerry Walkowski wrote:
I loss faith in TV magic shows years ago when Copperfield started messing with the TV cameras. Unfortunately David Blaine and Chris Angel are taking up David's bad habits.

Gerry


Down with Blaine! Down With Blaine..... something must have happened to him because I haven't heard much on him. maybe he actually got a dollar out of what he was doing... SO Mr.Blaine, whats your next trick? locking yourself in a box while starving yourself? that's not magic that's called living in the projects... Blaine is a disgrace to true magicians. why doesn't anyone have ever challenged him to actually work on an actual effect without trick photography and cheap bite-out coins?
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AnthonyMaze
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If you had your own TV show, people to use at your disposal, and truckloads of money.... what would you do?
...for the 51st time... that is NOT my card...
Drew Manning
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Blaine is a disgrace to true magicians. why doesn't anyone have ever challenged him to actually work on an actual effect without trick photography and cheap bite-out coins?

Well, as much as I dislike Blaine's style or lack there of and as much as it irks me that his first magic special was made up of 80-90% off the shelf beginner to intermediate magic effects, he has done a lot to bring magic back to the main stream. I don't really care for his endurance stunts either, but he has done a lot to revive magic especially with the younger crowd. Although I am currently not taking any paying gigs, it is guys like Blaine and Criss that help those who do have a demand for their services. Like these guys or not, they keep some folks round here working and earning a living.

Posted: Jun 26, 2007 12:44am
Quote:


On 2007-06-26 00:02, AnthonyMaze wrote:
If you had your own TV show, people to use at your disposal, and truckloads of money.... what would you do?


I'd so the same thing that CA is doing- milk it for all it's worth. He's a millionaire magician. How many of US who sit around and **** and moan about what he does can make that claim?
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
AnthonyMaze
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At least your being honest Drew... many magicians right now would trade in their entire act to have the publicity that Criss Angel gets in one day. If you follow Criss' past you'd know that he has got to love all this attention right now.

I honestly couldn't tell you if I would do what he's doing, because I've never been in that position with all the money and publicity.

Fame is a fishing pole, who's to say you wouldn't take the bait?
...for the 51st time... that is NOT my card...
Drew Manning
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Tons of cash, a fast expensive car, hot chicks, and free reign of a Vegas casino...I wouldn't have to think twice about it. Well, since I'm married, I might reconsider the chicks part. Smile
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
Adam Milestone
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Quote:
On 2007-06-20 12:22, Drew Manning wrote:
Quote:
I would have to agree with the majority. CGI is unacceptable.

Can you explain to me how this is any different than using say a black art device to hide the workings of a levitation presented live? Different mediums have different requirements.

Simple, you can't use CGI live on stage as you can BA. Using BA is more akin to say a TT wherein spectators looks directly at the method and still have no clue that anything is going on. But, adding digital enhancements to cover the method on a televised illusion; that's just cheap and cheesy. CT and CGI are not magical trickery, but are editing trickery! Smile Very big difference!
Steve Fearson
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How many of you can name the channel on the cable box off the top of your head?

I know it's a&e but for the life of me I can't name the channel. I think that says something.

Just curious
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Phil Thomas
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Next week, Mindfreak gets moved over to Cartoon Network. Smile
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."

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Jazz
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It should be moved to the Sci-Fi channel
Adam Milestone
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It’s 31 here in TO, but then I’ve been watching A&E for much longer than I’ve watching Mindfreak. Unless it's like CNN, it could be on different channels in different locals. Last show he did a nice Tip Over Trunk with a cardboard box. The steamroller was OK (the glass walk was a nice convincer), but I don't know why he had curtains around the back of the giant rolling wheel; I'd have had metal sheets painted the same colour as the steamroller instead. Criss is much better when he sticks to magic and doesn't employ CT and such.
sirbrad
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Quote:
On 2007-05-27 22:25, The Hitchhiker wrote:
Should make lay people think about appreciating REAL Magic Artists.

Damage? no damage..




Will what do damage??
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
Adam Milestone
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Criss' use of CT and such.
artofillusion77
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I belive criss is a great performer and has done a lot for our art, he brings creative illusions to the street and is putting magic in a new age.
Drew Manning
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I was watching the show tonight (missed the new episode) and he was doing dove work in the streets. Thought that was pretty cool to take what is normally done strictly for the stage and doing it on the street by borrowing scarves, sweaters, newspapers etc. Didn't really see any CGI or CT employed there Smile
I live my life for a layer of ice
Just like those poured by my bartender vice
Any taste of vermouth would be really sublime,
When you have a good martini time!

-The Reverend Horton Heat
Dannydoyle
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As to the question of wheather they should use these methods or not why are they not governed by the same common sense approach?

I don't care WHAT method they use, just don't get caught!

Isn't that the whole point? I don't care if he uses CGI, I don't care if he uses little fairies from Disneyland to levitate, simply DON'T GET CAUGHT!

This has been my problem with TV magic in general of late. The OBVIOUS use of stooges and CGI brings down the public as they cop to it almost immediatly.

Now mind you that I still think we should get together and send Criss and David Blaine fruit baskets for lowering the bar SO FAR for what passes for entertainment in this day and age! Heck when Criss with SUCH a high profile gets busted with stooges and CGI, and then they see live magic and are fooled with obviously none of the above, it makes me look that much better. In a strange sort of convoluted fashion he is good for live magic if you think of it right.

Harry Anderson used a camera trick in Hello Sucker, and it was so perfectly used that NOBODY knew, heck most magicians didn't catch him and many owned the trick! Use them, use anything you have too, just don't get caught.

I can't even figure out why this is a debate.
Danny Doyle
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Adam Milestone
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Why is there a debate? CGI is not a magical technique; it's a movie making tool. Name a magic book that even mentions using CGI as the method. You can't because it's not magic, plain and simple. If the general public became aware that magicians used CT edits or CGI to create the illusion, then it could potentially hurt magic on TV for a very long time to come. Copperfield didn't need to use CT etc. to vanish a Lear Jet, nor did he need them to walk through The Great Wall or to fly. CT are just that tricks done by the C not the magi and therefore should not be classified as magic. If what you say is true than anything that uses CGI is magic be your standards. I agree with Danny that the effect is everything and who cares what method you use, but there are exceptions to every rule and in this case the exceptions are CGI, CT, and editing that hides or is the method.
Dannydoyle
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Ever see the old footage of when Moving Pictures first came out? Tell me that camera tricks are not a part of magic and its history. Please.

Cameras, CGI, all tools of a new age. The key is to BLEND to tools so as not to get caught. Your missing the point. Tell me where there is a list of what I am and am not allowed to use to accomplish anything I want to. Please because in 20 years of performing professionally I have never seen this list, or run into another professional magician who has heard of such a thing.

So according to your "logic" when something else does the trick it is not magic. So the Zig Zag is not magic, nor is Oragami, or any illusion where basically a woman steps into a box and something happens. Seems to me that Copperfield uses many of these sorts of illusions.

Well the key then is in the way it is presented so he does not get busted on the method right? The box does the trick as much as the camera. Where is all the outrage? How about self working card tricks? Hate those too? The magician does NOTHING and yet here we have magic.

See your caught up in this silly idea that magic is about "magic" or about the "magician" or some silly set of rules we must abide by. It is not. It is for the audience, you have heard of them, they are the ones who pay to see the show.

If you can use ANY method and credibly fool them, or as I have said, don't get caught, then who cares? You are completly ruling out innovation by your idea of having spacific things we are and are not allowed to do. Heck when the audience gets wind of the rules, we have NO WAY of fooling them anyhow now do we?

IF you can credibly fool people with CGI then that is fine. Problem lies within the fact that it is not credible. It is OBVIOUS, and he gets caught. Camera edits the same thing. BUT again Harry Anderson used a camera trick MASTEFULLY and nobody was outraged. Reason was he FOOLED MAGICIANS who owned the trick! No outrage because he didn't get busted. It was BRILLIANT.

In this case the end DOES justify the means.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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