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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
I am a beginner in magic, but I am not completely new. I am proficient in all of the card sleights/tricks in Mark Wilson’s Complete Course in Magic and the Amateur Magician’s Handbook. I have shown many of my friends and family my card tricks and their reactions have been good. I feel that I should dabble in some other sort of magic besides just cards. (For a while I was trying coins, but I have rather poor mechanics with my fingers so coin tricks came very slowly for me)
So, what is your advice on Cup and Balls, Chop Cup, Sponge Balls? Should I get all of them? Should I buy them one at a time? Also I understand that a Chop Cup is a gimmicked cup. Do I need three chop cups for a chop cup routine, or do I need one chop cup that matches two ungimmicked cups? Or would you just recommend that I stick to cards until I have mastered them? Sorry for all of the questions, I am just very eager to learn. |
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troppobob Veteran user Crescent Head Australia 372 Posts |
G'day Matt
Mark Wilson's book has a good basic section on a beginners routine for cups and balls. Some sets of cups include one that is a chop cup and one of the balls is gimmicked to work in the chop cup, so that may be good way to familiarise yourself with both effects. From my experience if you have the chop cup option in the set you may have some problems with the gimmicked ball disappearing on you when you do a standard cup and ball routine. In regard to sponge balls, again the book by Wilson has a great routine that with a few minor changes I still use all the time. And you can use the sponge balls as loads in your chop cup or cups and ball routine. Of course it is not a good idea to get carried away with to many things all at once but this combination of new things to work on may overlap nicely to introduce you to some new performance techniques. Bob Latta (aka Troppo Bob) |
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
So does that mean that when sellers sell a "chop cup" that they are selling one chop cup with two regular cups?
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eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
A chop cup is one cup !(gimicked)
A chop cup routine is a routine which uses one cup ! Cups and balls uses, usually, three, ungimicked cups although two and one cup routines do exist. A combo set combines both - a gimmicked cup and two ungimicked which can be used as either of the above. And of course you can use two cups from the set. Hope that makes sense. What is inportant is that you think about; size. One small chop cup fits in the pocket, where three cups won't. Material - do you what brass, copper, aluminium ? And , of course, Price. |
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Tom Fenton Inner circle Leeds, UK (but I'm Scottish) 1477 Posts |
Matt, welcome to the Café.
There are some really good posts on this subject in the "ever so sleightly" forum. They give you a lot of good information about cup prices, materials, everything really, even how they are made. If you want an overdose of help, that's the place to go to. You can't move for experts.
"But there isn't a door"
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mark1991 Veteran user Boston, Lincolnshire, England 311 Posts |
Hi there,
A couple of years ago I bought a combo set of cups and it was the best decision I made! I love the chop cup aspect, but I have worked it into a full cups and balls routine. Good luck with making your decision! God bless! Magical Mark Watson (mark1991)
http://magicnewstelevision.com/mn/magicalmark
Magical Mark Watson - Christian magician, juggler, puppeteer, all-round entertainer and lover of Christ! |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
I encourage you to use the SEARCH function as well. Great discussions about the topic are awaiting.
Andy
Cards never lie
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
I began with Mark Wilson's book and 3 drinking cups with cotton balls. Alone, with a mirror I began to understand the routine.
I think the Cups and Balls straight our of the book is a good start. Doing C&B well will develop other magical skills as well. I would always recommend it for any beginning magician. The chop cup adds an element, and takes a few away (I think). A combo routine could be wonderful, perhaps somewhat difficult to do well.The Boss does it well. My Suggestion: Sponge balls are cheap and entertaining, right out of the book. Cups & Ball is cheap to begin with and entertaining, right out of the book. Add cards, you have a lot of material for a routine. Then comes the hard part. Making it enjoyable to watch.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
Thanks for all of the feedback.
I'm pretty sure that I will buy a set of chop cup, cups and balls combo set. I can only find two at a "reasonable" price. http://themagicwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/findit.pl?x_item=MB2834 and http://themagicwarehouse.com/cgi-bin/findit.pl?x_item=LO1216 So, are those decent quality? I have read in other forums that cheap chop cups are not inspectable. The other combo sets I have seen all run well over 200 dollars and I don't think I am willing to make that sort of investment on a trick that I haven't tried yet. |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
I would like to encourage you to use the search function of this forum. There are many good threads about cups.
Andy
Cards never lie
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-06-01 01:35, matt kemp wrote: though I cannot recomend the morrissy C&B for any serious work, they are servicable and will get your feet wet- then you will know if it's a trick for you or not. also one of the cups IS a chop cup, so you'll kill 2 birds with one stone. Sponge balls are cheap enough that anyone should have a few at least...
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
Andy, I have been using the search function. Most of the cup and ball threads are about really expensive chop cup/cups and ball combo sets or they are about plain cups and balls for beginners. I too am a beginner, but I was interested in getting a combination set.
But I am fairly familiar with the Café. I lurked daily before making my first post. Theres a LOT of good stuff here. It's amazing. |
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Andy the cardician Inner circle A street named after my dad 3362 Posts |
Matt,
you also might want to look for used stuff at e-bay. Andy
Cards never lie
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eddieloughran Special user 942 Posts |
Matt,
above you mention "resonable" pricing. These sets are cheap !! They are also aluminium, which although usable and cheap, are a bit light and shiney. By all means buy them - I've used al. myself, but be aware that you are buying a cheap, bottom of the range set. If cost is an issue forget about Combo or Chop Cups and and learn with ordinary cups and balls of paper. Even those cheap plastic sets work ! |
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what Special user Lehi, UT, USA 643 Posts |
My advice comes from the standpoint of a hobbiest who loves to do the cups & balls.
You can get a set of nesting plastic cups for just a few dollars. They are as serviceable as aluminum. I started out with plastic, then purchased an aluminum combo set, then a copper set(non combo). I perform with the copper or plastic, but find the aluminum combo set doesn't work for me in performance. When I perform for kids, I have them select the color cup as part of my routine. For adults, I prefer the copper because they are heavier and look more interesting (less ordinary). Whatever you choose, be sure not to overlook the Mark Wilson Cups & balls routine. it is well thought out and can be made to be very entertaining. The sponge ball routine from Mark Wilsons book is as good as any that I have seen. It will get you where you want to go with a nice sponge ball routine. Be sure not to overlook the sponge ball through pocket phase. That phase gets oohs and ahhs. Enjoy, Mike
Magic is fun!!!
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ChristopherM Special user UK 844 Posts |
Mark Wilson's C&B is a great routine; very good place to start.
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matt kemp Veteran user 312 Posts |
So, the other day I decided to play around with styrofoam cups and cotton balls using the C&B routine from Mark Wilson and I had a blast. I decided to spend some extra cash and I bought the brass cups and balls set from Bazar de Magia and I bought a separate brass chop cup from Bazar. I can't wait for the cups to come and I would like to thank everyone for the advice.
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JamesTong Eternal Order Malaysia 11213 Posts |
Welcome to the magical world of cups and balls, Matt.
Play around with the sets you bought. Be familiar with a couple of techniques and routines and you will find out why so many of us like cups and balls. |
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GWSchott Veteran user Southeastern Michigan 361 Posts |
I just picked up Morrissey's Mini Chop Chop Cup and think it's about the greatest thing since sliced bread. It's perfect for strolling magic because it fits nicely in your pocket.
Yours In Magic,
Gordon |
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mrsmiles Elite user 442 Posts |
Hi There. Looks like things are progressing well. I really do recommend the sponge balls - some of the strongest reactions can come from those little puppies. There's a decent routine in Wilsons book. If you want to see excellent but practical and easy routines on dvd then I'd refer you to Daryls 'Fooler Dooler' DVDs. One volume has a routine with balls (vol 1 I think) and another with sponge rabbits (vol 3). I personally do not do cups and balls though I'm sure I will learn it one day. I am much more interested in what I can use for table hopping as I work professionally (I know this is a 'new to magic' forum) & I've got to the stage where I don't really buy things for showing to friends. Many 'workers' views are that when it comes to doing gigs that C&B is not that practical for many reasons (pocket space & time to do the routine et). But many do it before anyone shoots me down! Do note Carl Andrews' routine (video/dvd) where he does it with 2 cups only, with sponge balls. I rate that really hightly and will use it one day. For me the chop cup is much more practical for now - my pocket space is at a premium. For friends I like to work impromptu for them just take a pack of cards, some sponges and maybe one more small item before going to visit friends etc. If I have nothing and they ask me - most people will have a pack of cards in the house/in the bar & you've got the impromptu materials of napkins (do a sponge type routine with them), matches & mentalism predictions to fall back on. I too don't like coins - but I've learnt Greg Wilsons' 'Questionnable Trick' for impromptu work with friends. You'll find it on his 'On the Spot' DVD. BTW, I recommend that DVD highly. I think most of it will be within your skill level considering what you've learnt already.
Good luck!
mrsmiles
(UK) |
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