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BAH1313 Elite user Ohio 445 Posts |
Ya know, looking back, I was a tad nasty there huhn?
Rant aside, Danny and Brian, you gave great Critiques and some great advice. I'm sure he appreciates it!
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Bah,
I actually thought your second to last post was brilliant! Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Gerald Veteran user Arkansas 325 Posts |
Jaymeswhite,
You may not like the criticism, but if you want to improve, it is a painful necessity. Winston Churchill put it this way: "Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Francois de La Rochefoucauld had this bit of wisdom: "Few people have the wisdom to prefer the criticism that would do them good, to the praise that deceives them." Don’t be fooled into thinking you have "arrived" when people say, "Hey, that was great!" There is nothing wrong with being a novice, doing an acceptable performance and receiving encouraging words for it. But also, consider seriously constructive criticism, if it is from a knowledgeable, experienced, compassionate, trusted source. Valid criticism can come from both those who offer it in a tactful way and from those who do not. Be "thick skinned" and don't become discouraged. With great resolve and enthusiasm to improve, study the classic texts of magic. If the criticism reflects the timeless axioms of the art, you can trust it to be good advice. Regards, Gerald |
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Gerald Veteran user Arkansas 325 Posts |
BTW James,
I most certainly agree with Dan and Brian. They have terrific thoughts. It would be wise to consider them. We all strive to reach that unobtainable goal: perfection. Join the group! You'll be in good company. Gerald |
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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
So... is a performance good simply when you get away with it?
I would say there is far more to being a magician than just pulling off one trick. My uncle can do that; should we praise him for being a good magician as well?
Check out SKYCAP from Paul Harris Presents!- "A fine trick from the dynamic foursome..."
Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Alex,
You have missed the point completely. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Alex Linian Inner circle Peru 1277 Posts |
I think you've missed the point of the forum completely.... but at least I'll guide you to the answer...
If you go to the top of the page you'll see that it says "magicians helping magician", and not "people praising in each other in order not to improve at doing tricks". Of course, maybe you think all there is to doing good magic is getting away with someone else's trick... Yes some people pointlessly criticized him, but even more pointlessly praised him. Am I still missing something?
Check out SKYCAP from Paul Harris Presents!- "A fine trick from the dynamic foursome..."
Jared Brandon Kopf, Magic Magazine PUNCTURE 2.0 - "Jaw-dropping amazing... You also get the absolute best teaching DVD I have ever seen" - Genii Magazine SLEIGHT OF HAND that looks like Magic. --- Alex Linian | Instagram |
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Gerald Veteran user Arkansas 325 Posts |
Alex,
Quote: "So... is a performance good simply when you get away with it?" Of course not. I don’t believe that my post suggests that it is. Dan and Brian offered encouragement. Positive support is a part of constructive criticism. Without encouragement as a part of the criticism, the suggestions can be interpreted as arrogant belittling and not acted upon. Quote: "I would say there is far more to being a magician than just pulling off one trick." You’ll get no argument from me on this. Quote: "My uncle can do that; should we praise him for being a good magician as well?" Of course not. But you might encourage him by saying something like, "Hey that was pretty good. I’ll bet you could become a pretty good magician." If he asked, "How would I do that?" You’ll be just the person with the right answers. Respectfully, Gerald By the way, I believe Jaymes (and others in the same position) would be wise to take the suggestions and observations by Charlie and Kaylan to heart and take them in the spirit in which they were offered. |
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Gerald Veteran user Arkansas 325 Posts |
Quote:
"I think you've missed the point of the forum completely. . ." Alex, "Magicians Helping Magicians" is exactly the point. Encouragement is part of (certainly not all of) the "helping" equation. I am simply pointing out that fact. I believe Dan, Brian and I have that concept firmly in mind. Quote: "Of course, maybe you think all there is to doing good magic is getting away with someone else's trick..." Come on . . . "Now you’re getting nasty." (Indiana Jones) Quote: "Am I still missing something?" Yes, I think so. Part of constructive criticism is offering encouragement. Regards, Gerald BTW: Your suggestion quoted below is excellent and is certainly encourgement. Jaymes would be wise to follow it. Alex quote: "My suggestion would be for you to develop a character, select a theme, and work on a script. Taking theater classes will not hurt. Then we will see a completely different video." |
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montemagic Elite user San Diego, CA 471 Posts |
I think Alex makes a good point that you don't have to praise where it isn't deserved, but you don't have to be obnoxious like Tommy Wayne was above. I think that the people that are here to post a majority of negative comments should take the time to read that logo in the upper left hand corner of the page, and maybe should ask themselves if taking the negative approach is supporting what the Café stands for 'magicians helping magicians'.
Aim To Amaze
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PirateJohn Regular user Anaheim, CA 156 Posts |
I second what has been said before about taking theater classes. I have had college-level theater training and currently take professional voice acting classes as well as singing instruction. Even joining a Toastmasters club can be a great benefit.
Someone who is a great presenter can take the most mundane trick and turn it wildly entertaining illusion. Conversely, someone who seems uncomfortable in front of an audience or who lacks polish can make the most elaborate illusion a ho-hum experience. People often forget that what makes a magician entertaining isn't the trick -- it's the performer. The true magic doesn't come from pulling a card out of an orange, but from taking the audience on a journey of magic. |
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PirateJohn Regular user Anaheim, CA 156 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-21 10:58, montemagic wrote: I completely agree. Being polite isn't tantamount to holding back punches. Our goal when helping magicians should be to be constructive with our replies. Anybody can say "that was terrible," but that doesn't really provide any useful input. We're here not to say "that wasn't good" but to say "this is what you might consider doing to make it better." |
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PirateJohn Regular user Anaheim, CA 156 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-07-14 18:56, BAH1313 wrote: Totally agree here. It takes a great deal of courage to present yourself in a forum of hundreds of fellow magicians, and for that Jaymes is to be commended. It's perfectly okay and welcomed to criticize and to give advice, but it's not okay to demean. Doing a poor performance makes you a bad magician. Demeaning someone who does a poor performance makes you a bad person. I'd rather have a bad magician around me than a bad person. |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Yes Alex,
You have missed the point completely as I said before. To answer your second question, yes you are also obviously missing a lot. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
For the record, I also stand by my earlier comment that this was not a poor performance given the situation.
I also said he received some very constructive critisisim and some was just blathering, venom spouting, drivel. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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chr!s Regular user newcastle 163 Posts |
I read thru the column before watching the video(i was on an extremely slooow computer so thought id use the time effectively while waiting for the vid to load.)
after reading some of the comments I thought 'surely this is an overblown reaction ro a video?' I was wrong. jaymes,i usually wouldnt be this rough with my remarks or comments,but that was truly uncomfortable to watch.i wont highlight specifics of the 'performance',as the points I have issue with have already been brought up,but you butchered what could be an adequate effect. as I say,i wouldnt normally react like this,but I have to ask,how long have you been studying magic?every aspect of a good,strong routine was just absent from the thing?! how long to videos like this have to circulate before people realise how much damage they are doing to the art they apparently have so much passion for? id say I'm sorry for what ive had to say here,but I'm truly not.i know who should be apologising. chr!s
"you can't see your own rub-a-dub..."
-richard sanders |
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Ronnie Ramin Loyal user 233 Posts |
Jaymes,
If you want to do the "Card in Orange" you should pick up a booklet called "Neoclassics" written by Stephen Minch. It has 3 routines from Larry Jennings in it. The one you want is "High-C". Larry handles the vanish of the card in a wonderful way, as well as other key points in the routine. I won't tip it, but it's worth your time and money ($10) to find it. Ronnie |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Took the words right out of my mouth. The burning in this case was plain ugly, literally. It might work in a formal setting with your own table and an ashtray, but not on someone else's property. Not to mention that the card was not completely "gone" and immediately makes one think "dupe" somehow. Yes there was too much dead air as well, and I thought after the effect you were going to put your mouth on the camera and scream "YEAHHH!!!!!!!!ARE YOU READY?!" Thanks for sparing us that.
Also going to the floor to cut the orange is not exactly professional. I think if you work on a good storyline and change some things it will be much better next time. I understand what people are saying about the performance fitting this particular situation, but there is still too many loose ends. Quote: On 2007-07-06 04:25, Thomas Wayne wrote:
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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