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Justin Style
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You never know! lol. It's a small (Cyber) World!

Just remember, be thankful for all of it. You can learn just as much from a bad magician as you can from a good one...


Justin
tony2514
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Hey Mitch
No need to apologise - we all knew what you meant, but you know how these threads go off topic and people pick out one or two things to spout off about.

I doubt that the guy you saw was Justin - he seems much too professional.......Hey, you weren't in the UK at the time were you?!!!!!!!!
Justin Style
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Quote:
On 2007-06-18 15:38, tony2514 wrote:

I doubt that the guy you saw was Justin - he seems much too professional


Don't let my good looks fool ya. I'm just as bad as the best of them...lol!
Nedim
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Hi,

As Neil mentioned,

Presantation was a problem. I think the magician that you saw was a beginner at Kidshow magic. He must renew himself.


Nedim Guzel
Andy the cardician
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Even the famous Kellar was not a great sleight of hands magician.
Cards never lie
JackScratch
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Yay, Carousel. Renew, Renew, Renew, Renew!

Guys, this was a semantic statement, I would bet on it. Another debate created for the point of debating. Happens all the time around here. Some people think that magic is doing cool things that look impossible. There are others of us who know that, while that is a part of magic, without the many other very important aspect of an entertaining magic performance, you simply do not have one. Some people think that a "killer trick" perfectly executed is enough to entertain an audience. They believe that, because they have devoted everything to having the most perfect effects. If it turns out that the "perfect effect" isn't all, or even most of an entertaining magic presentation, then they are back at square one. They no longer "know it all", and no one wants that, now do they. Far easier to delude ones self that to actually learn and develop.

This isn't an opinion. I have seen Magicians who entertained many audiences beautifully with "lesser" effects and perfect presentation. I Defy anyone to find me a magician who entertains without consideration to presentation, but superior effects. In fact, if superior effects are all that matter, then why in the world are there not more superior magicians out there? If all one needs if perfect execution of the perfect effect, I would tend to believe that 90% of the forum crowd would have 3 digit magic careers. Yet they don't. What do you suppose they might be lacking?
Mark Wilden
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Maybe it's because I'm just getting into magic now, but I've never believed that presentation isn't the most important part of magic. After all, I read about the importance of it every day, in forum posts, magazine articles and books.

Are there really people who don't get this?

///ark
mentalvic
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Quote:
On 2007-06-16 09:51, JackScratch wrote:
The length of a "story" is never an issue, only that stories ability to engage the audience. This is true for any and all mono/dialog.



If you live in the Deep South, 90 degree weather in the summer (the hot, humid, sticky summer) turns the length of a story becomes a VERY big issue. ANYTHING that takes time standing in the fetid, still, humid air becomes an issue.
There she was, a dodgy old prune in a tiara, rushing at me waving a sword. Do all knights suffer this whilst being made?
Froste
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Quote:
On 2007-06-23 12:08, Mark Wilden wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm just getting into magic now, but I've never believed that presentation isn't the most important part of magic. After all, I read about the importance of it every day, in forum posts, magazine articles and books.

Are there really people who don't get this?

///ark


I think it's really a concept that bears discussion repeatedly. I know I can't hear it enough. So many times I've found myself thinking "I need more effects. I should be able to do more different effects. I only know 8 card effects, 3 coin effects, 2 rope effects... I need more material!" So, hearing about the importance of an entertaining presentation helps me, at least.

Another important point that I'm sure we can't hear enough in this forum is: it really doesn't matter whether the method is a gaff, prop, self working, or if it involves slight-of-hand. Well, on the other hand, it sorta does for me. I'm still pretty new at all this, especially performing in public, so for me the self working card effects play really nicely. I can put a lot of energy into presentation since I don't need to perform sleights all the time. Then when I get to an effect where I need sleights I have a relaxed audience and a relaxed me and I'm not so worried about flubbing things and therefore have a better time pulling everything off the way I should.
marty.sasaki
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I don't do many card tricks since finding out, and informally confirming, that most women are bored by card tricks. One thing that I've tried recently is a simple written prediction for a forced card. I use a really simple slip force, so the whole thing is about presentation. I'm using the presentation that Kenton Knepper presents in Wonder Words, and the effect really plays well.

The effect is made by the presentation. Otherwise it's a pretty trivial effect, but because I don't do many card effects and concentrate on the perception I get great reactions.
Marty Sasaki
Arlington, Massachusetts, USA

Standard disclaimer: I'm just a hobbyist who enjoys occasionally mystifying friends and family, so my opinions should be viewed with this in mind.
tony2514
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Quote:
On 2007-06-23 12:08, Mark Wilden wrote:
Maybe it's because I'm just getting into magic now, but I've never believed that presentation isn't the most important part of magic. After all, I read about the importance of it every day, in forum posts, magazine articles and books.

Are there really people who don't get this?

///ark


Boy oh, boy. Are there ever.

Spend half an hour on YouTube or hand round the bars at a magic convention. Unfortunately, some of these guys belive that their technical abilities (some of which they have deluded themselves into thinking they have)get bookings in bars, restaurants, and parties and give the rest of us a bad name.

"Yeah, they had a magician there and he was so dull and annoying...."

I've heard this too many times. In the UK the Magic Circle membership has examinations and (even though I am not a member) I think that performers should have to have some sort of accreditation - sort of like a driving test -so that punters know who/what they are booking. High accreditation = guaranteed excellent show. No accreditation = you take pot luck!
JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2007-06-23 15:45, mentalvic wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-06-16 09:51, JackScratch wrote:
The length of a "story" is never an issue, only that stories ability to engage the audience. This is true for any and all mono/dialog.



If you live in the Deep South, 90 degree weather in the summer (the hot, humid, sticky summer) turns the length of a story becomes a VERY big issue. ANYTHING that takes time standing in the fetid, still, humid air becomes an issue.




Did you look at my avatar? I'm the King's Magician at the Texas Renaissance Festival which runs every weekend in October and Most of November. I know that sounds like cold weather time to most people, but not down here. Add to that my costume, which is heavier than most peoples parkas. Trust me, if you are entertaining enough, they will stand there and watch you no matter how uncomfortable they are and no matter how hot it is.


As to harping on effect versus presentation, yes there are not only people who don't get it, but as this thread pretty much proves, they will argue about it as well. You will hear it from me repeatedly. The effect doesn't matter, any more than it's fit in your routine. There are no good effects. No effect will make you a good magician, no matter how well you execute it. To be a good and entertaining magician, you must do all the things it takes to entertain an audience, and of those executing an effect correctly is the easiest.
Mark Wilden
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Quote:
On 2007-06-24 03:13, tony2514 wrote:
Boy oh, boy. Are there ever.
Unfortunately, some of these guys belive that their technical abilities (some of which they have deluded themselves into thinking they have)get bookings in bars, restaurants, and parties and give the rest of us a bad name.

I guess I'd think that those kind of "magicians" are just the kind who would not read forum posts, books, and magazines. In other words, we're preaching to the choir.

///ark
Bob Sanders
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Mark,

The real test is always the paying audience. I agree with you that "we're preaching to the choir" for self improvement too often. But we do have The Msgic Café where magicians can help magicians. I'm grateful!

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

Magic By Sander / The Amazed Wiz

AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com
mitchb2
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Dear thread,
Please die.

Amen.
Andy the cardician
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Quote:
On 2007-06-24 23:40, mitchb2 wrote:
Dear thread,
Please die.

Amen.


You just extended its lifeline . . . .

upps, so did I.
Cards never lie
JackScratch
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Listen to you two. You don't like the thread, don't read it.
tony2514
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Quote:
On 2007-06-24 23:40, mitchb2 wrote:
Dear thread,
Please die.

Amen.


Hey, Mitch, don't knock it. You started a great thread and some really iteresting discussions. I've enjoyed it.
Justin Style
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I heard someone once say, "There are no bad magic shows, only bad magic show offs!"
Andy the cardician
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Quote:
On 2007-06-26 09:11, JackScratch wrote:
Listen to you two. You don't like the thread, don't read it.


Jack,

listen - who gave you the impression that I want to stop the thread? Please read my mail carefully before posting. And by the way, I do have a name.

Andy
Cards never lie
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