Southport Matt? Used to live on York Terrace, Manchester Road.

Wow manchester road is right round the corner and right next to my magic circle, its a small world.
Matt

What a pity you missed out on Open Sesame. You may now have to wait until 2054 before you ever see it again. By then of course you will be retired. 50 years wasted doing up to date stuff.
If you wish to progress in magic you really must go back to the age of the dinosaur. Good children's entertainment never goes away.

Look at Bill,Ben, Andy Pandy and Sooty. On hearing that they are all back I am tempted to return to the UK. Once Muffin the Mule comes back then I will be on the next plane.

I'll get right on to the bbc, lol. I've found were I can get the book. Raymond book your flight now for 2005, http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/news/cult/2003/04/16/3869.shtml.

It's going to be an animation.

Matt

That link didn't work...I think this is what you mean Matt


Although I am obviously far too young to remember the original!

Stu Di Doo

That's the one

A very interesting thread. I am one half of a two man team, and we are currently working towards going full time. We still have day jobs, however we still consider ourselves as professional magicians. If we have a gig during working hours, we take the time off. A gig is a gig. I have heard of part timers undercutting fees, but we do not. In fact, we have to charge a litte more, because there are two of us. Just my two cents worth.
Dan Allender
The Bold Magic of Allender and Welborn
http://www.boldmagic.com

As for the charging over/under, I perform on a part-time basis and I charge higher fees. The one full timer we have in town is the one who charges little. I figure I don't need it to live off of and I can be more selective in the shows I do.

I love my full-time job, so I see no need to go to magic full time. Perhaps when I "retire".

I think the part-timers are often in a better postion the get the best gigs. It has nothing to do with them being more or less professional or more or less skillful, etc. Generally, if they play it right, they have the luxury of "holding out" for the best gigs and highest fees. If you have a second job (or even a primary job), you're not worrying that the next call may be the only one you'll get this month. If your calendar doesn't fill up, so be it ... the paycheck still arrives.

I pity the people who booked me in the first days of my career, but I learned fast and improved - and my rate went up accordingly.

There's nothing wrong with part-timers, especially since I can usually get the serious customers for myself simply by being the guy who actually answers the phone while the part-timers have their answering machines turned on (they're at their day jobs.)

But when I do depend, for paying the bills, on also getting budget-minded customers, I have a little trouble with part-timers who have to charge less than a living wage in order to get any clients at all. They're perilously like "bottom feeders" who will charge the lowest rate in town to entice the customers who respond only to price.

Moreover, the premise of the original poster is that the part-timers would (of course) provide a quality service. The "duffers" at the magic club couldn't entertain if their life depended on it - I've seen them! I was filling in face-painting and balloons last week for a community event which had already booked a stage magic show. And the guy had all the equipment - even all of the skill - but none of the talent! A kid audience and 5 minutes in, he's still talking like a teacher about the history of magic. 15 minutes along, and he's used a crateful of boxes and glittery tubes, and there hasn't been a laugh or an "oooh!" or more than a smattering of applause. Thirty minutes on, and he puts on a Mandarin Chinese costume complete with hat and pigtail wig, and does some darned fool "me honolable Chinee magician" junk straight out of Tarbell (good linking rings, offensive patter). Lord only knows what they paid him, but I'm trying to support a family while this idiot is PLAYING "MAGICIAN" FOR THE WEEKEND!

Sorry, all you capable and talented part-timers out there ... you're among bad company.

I've seen an awful lot of awful full-timers, too (can anyone say "Dixie Dooley"?)

You will always find good and bad performers both full and part time.

The main conflict would apparently be (I have not experienced any conflict personally) if part-timers undercut full-timers.

Stu Di Doo

I haven't experienced this personally either but I have heard about it happening.
Sometimes the full-timers bring it on themselves, a freind of mine started out part-time and decided to go and openly ask the full-timers in the local circle what he should charge and what everyone else cost etc. They refused to help him or tell him so he ended up just picking a price he thought was right. It was a bit too low and next time the same guys told him off for under-cutting them.

We don't have a lot of full timers here where I live.
There are a few and they are pretty busy doing corporate gigs having done some big shows in Vegas etc....

I guess I could see how a full timer could feel. It's there livelihood and all and perhaps they see part timers as just passing through.

We also have a lot of full timers here in my area of Philadelphia. However, I find there are those who really will help you out as long as you prove your worth to them and they realize you are sincere in your approach and really want to learn.

However, we also have those who fight anyone trying to become full time and shrug people off who even attempt to do it. They do not realize that everyone has a right to make a living and it is competition. If you are GOOD at what you do and you market yourself well and have relationships with your clients, then you should not feel so threatoned.

Kyle

I do believe that full timers that fight anyone trying to go full time is afraid of competition. I am of the belief that competition is good for the soul, so to speak. Makes you take a step back and look at your show in a different light.

I always encourage anyone that has a true desire to be better at what they enjoy.

I see this in the corporate world all the time. A manager does not teach or show someone under them for fear that person will do it better. What they miss is the satisfaction of that person moving on or even being better then the teacher.

I had many Assistant Mangers get their own store and two even went on to be District Managers. They still tell me it was because I showed them anything that they asked to learned. I loved it and it made me feel good.

You should never be afraid of competition if your show is well put together and thought out!

John B

Ross Macrea - as the original topic poster, believe me, I do understand all the points you make in your quite lengthy article!

However, I wished to post the thread from a neutral stance, and then let the rest of you guys state your feelings. Some of my feelings do coincide with yours Ross, - although as I've grown older, and thankfully, much more financially comfortable, I've have in fact mellowed my views of say 20 years ago, towards part-timers. Then it was a battle to survive, and we certainly resented others coming into our business as retired policemen on fat pensions, or schoolteachers competing against us during the summer break when they were on 6 weeks paid leave to start with! We often wondered just what these people would say if we dabbled into THEIR occupations both cheap and part-time. However, as I say, as time moves on you tend to see things in possibly a more level or mature context, and these days we could not give two cents whether entertainers around us are full time or part time!

It's the ones who come into your area who are REALLY GOOD you have to worry about!

Tony (England)

PS: Don't go giving away too many secrets now Ross about just how many phone calls part-timers miss during weekdays will you . . . (smiley)