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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts 
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On 2007-07-02 06:23, 7th_Son wrote: It may be a geographical issue, but I believe most laypeople don't know who Uri Gellar is - at least in the US. I would venture to say that if I asked 10 laypersons, maybe 1 or 2 would have heard of him or could tell anything of him. I will experiment tonight. Is Mr. Geller's popularity among laypersons central to this question of thanks? Because he is not the creator of the effect of metal bending, but only popularized it among certain groups of people, it is a narrow focus of singular reason to thank Uri Geller. Granted - not for Jim, but certainly for most of us. In Jim's original post, he asks for our reasons if we DON"T thank Uri Geller. I have done this and respectfully ask Jim for his comments on my rather different context of Uri Geller from his, and the results of that context on the need or desire for thanks. Also important to note is some not-yet-discussed verbage in Jim's original post: "Many of you know my thoughts on him and my opinion and thanks have been prominent or Uri’s site for a couple of years http://www.uri-geller.com/uri-biography/uribiog4.htm (You have to click my name on his site.)" On the page Jim refers us to, we see his name and Uri's together, only inches apart in space and in heart. Also, is the countless number of magicians Jim has just led to this visual and PR marriage. Add to this the now 11 pages of discussion with a tad bit of controversy thrown in, and you have another one of Jim's well-thought-out experiments. I have mixed thoughts about some of Jim's actual material, as I'm sure he would have mixed thoughts about some of mine (I am characteristically not a risk-taker as he is). But I have always, always been impressed by his ability to keep his name in front of us and in the middle of our conversations. As professional entertainers, we all wrestle with the constant need to keep our name on the consciousness of those that could help us achieve our goals. Jim has proven to be a master at this and I offer sincere praise. Finally, let me offer this attempt to be concise in an explanation of why Uri Geller pushes a number of our buttons: Its not his fame, its not his methods, its not that he doesn't tell anyone whether he's real or not. Its that he appears to have used all of the above to take money from people that weren't paying for an entertainer, but were paying for the help of a real psychic. I don't know whether its true that he's actually done this, but it is the part that sticks in our craw and gives us hesitation in his acceptance. If true, it is the part that demonstrates his lack of integrity. Lets put the focus back where it really belongs, that of Jim Callahan. |
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 11:35, Keith Raygor wrote: Even at 1 or 2. That is 1 or 2 more than anyother name you could possibly put out there. |
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Yellowjacket Regular user Wisconsin 159 Posts
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Keith,
I think you nailed it. Jim is very smooth and knows how to market his name, at least here in the Café. He has even created quite a loyal following. Much different than his rocky start a few years back. Jim does take chances and sometimes the results are not so good, but much like a good reader, they are quickly forgotten when he hits some gold. His show is good, the question is other than the obvious push towards publicity what is his actual goal and what is he willing to sacrifice to achieve it. I personally oscillate between thinking he is a generally nice guy to he is a horse's a** when he finds ways to subtly insult people who do not agree with his stance. Or when he allows his minions to take up his fight in very nasty ways and he lets it happen. Using the standard, its not me and I wash my hands of it defense. And of course there is chichi, who seems to always miss the point. YellowJacket |
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 12:00, Yellowjacket wrote: Everybody has to be good at something right?? |
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 12:00, Yellowjacket wrote: Seems like that's the inspiration Jim got from Mr. Geller. Keep in mind that Uri was an unknown magician in his early years without any publicity whatsoever.. After that he did anything he could to become famous, even if means to throw his honesty away. In short, he sold himself out. That reminds me a bit of Jim, except for the famous part. |
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts
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I haven’t mentioned Uri yet to anyone who has ever known who I’m talking about. I myself never knew who he was until within the last six or seven years. I personally don’t find him very impressive nor do I think he could possibly duplicate his previous success in today’s climate. Most of the younger generation today think he’s a joke from what I’ve heard and linking yourself to him may just get you laughed at. I also think there’s an air of desperation in Uri’s attempts at keeping himself in the spotlight.
I see that same desperation in Jim. But Jim is, as Yellowjacket said, only good at getting attention here at the Café so far as I’ve seen. He has a clique of people who hang onto his every word and adoringly shower him with his desired - and apparently required - ego boosts but on the world stage, Jim is an obscure figure. Many supporters of Jim have attempted to shift the focus of this thread and make it about thanking Uri for his inspiration. That however is NOT Jim’s original intention. First, Jim stated that anyone who does metal bending owes Uri a debt of gratitude. Quote:
On 2007-06-23 18:10, Jim-Callahan wrote: In this post, Jim accuses prominent members of the mentalism community - though he didn’t have the courage to name them - of making money off Uri Geller. Later, he associated them with criminals. Personally, it appears to me that Jim simply wanted people to go to Uri’s site, read his “article’, and then return here to congratulate him yet again on how wonderful and brilliant they believe he is. Quote:
Jim accused ANYONE who teaches metal bending of intellectual theft. And he was plainly established to be wrong about it. First off, Uri didn’t invent metal bending. It’s far older than he. Secondly, Uri claims to accomplish his bending using authentic psychic powers, not trickery. Since the people Jim accuses of intellectual theft are teaching methods using trickery and optical illusions, Jim was wrong about that. When Jim was clearly shown to be inaccurate in his assessment, rather than admit his mistake, he simply posted doubletalk until he finally just flew the coup and left his adoring Callafans to fight his battle for him, only to inevitably return for more doubletalk. This thread is NOT about Uri’s inspiration. It’s about Jim’s unwarranted and false accusations of unethical behavior on the part of mentalists who have contributed FAR MORE to the art of mentalism than Uri ever thought about. Uri Geller is a fraud who took advantage of people for money, without any concern or intention of contributing anything whatsoever to the art of mentalism. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 12:27, DJM wrote: Now THIS is a brilliant post. Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts
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Actually DJM and Holly are owed thanks by Jim. Your constant posts are what keeps this thread alive and help Jim sell more product.
If not for all the posts by you two Jim would not make as much money. Good job! Jim isn't Uri and you two are by no means Randi, but you serve the same purpose. Randi aided Geller and you two aid Jim. If the pattern holds true in several years Jim will be more successful than he imagined. Keep on posting. |
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts
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Mota, in that case maybe I'll post a new thread and ask Jim to thank me and Holly!
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HollyMental Elite user OR 423 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 15:00, mota wrote: I have no problem whatsoever with Jim being successful. I wish him much success in his career. Nor do I have any problem with helping him in his goal. So long as it’s honest. If he’s fraudulent in how he succeeds, then I have a problem with that. As far as the Randi comments, I’m not even going to address that because you obviously just want to drag Mr. Randi’s name into anything every chance you have because you have a personal problem with him. He has nothing to do with this thread and your mentioning of him is purely diversionary. And I’m not impressed with your transparent - and rather sloppy - attempt at reverse psychology. You’re not working a mark here. The focus of this thread is, as I said, Jim’s false and unsubstantiated accusations of unethical behavior on the part of prominent members of the mentalism community. What have you to say in regards to Jim’s accusations that someone such as, say, Richard Osterlind, is guilty of intellectual theft? Holly
The devil can advocate for himself.
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valueduser New user Batavia, ny 77 Posts
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Has Uri ever come forward and acknowledged that his "powers" are just trickery? Last I knew he still claimed that he was psychic. That being the case I don't see why any magician would want to thank him, he's never done anything for us. It's more like I feel sorry for him that he's so nuts.
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DJM Inner circle Israel 1681 Posts
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Awhile ago he was telling the media that he would use his powers to find a rapist who escaped jail, so I'd say he's still does his lame psychic-publicity claims..
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salsa_dancer Inner circle 1935 Posts
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I would like to extend my thanks to Uri, for without him this whole farce would not be here. I would also like to extend my thanks to the Devil, for without him we would not have God - or is it the other way around? Whatever, one without the other would not have caused all the fuss and excitement over the years. I would like to thank my mum and dad for their little bit of rumpy pumpy that helped spawn new life: namely me. I would also like to extend my thanks to the academy for considering me for this award and to everyone that worked on this thread to make it what it is today.
SHOW ME THE MONEY! x |
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Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts
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I think we can safely say that intellectual theft is not the issue. But I still don't see where that is proved. I may have missed in in these many pages, but is there a source, a performance, a write up, anything, to prove that the effects used by Uri are not his creations? Please let me know. Aside from that, I didn't realize Jim was selling anything and I did not go to the site to see his name by Uri's. So perhaps I missed what he was trying to as it has been said manipulate me to do. I did however go to Jim's site and I watched two videos.
One was a very nice, very creative way to do as simple a thing as make a balloon flower and give it to an audience member. The other was some long "experiment," that didn't translate its message and in the video made no actual sense to me whatsoever. The revelations were muddled, and I didn't know what they were revelations of. So, I wasn't focused on anything to do with Jim. It seems strange to me that people keep bringing this post back to him. Do you want to talk him up? Is that the goal here? Because the issues that seem to drive this long long thread are allot more interesting to me that talking about the guy who started the thread. It is also obvious that there is allot of animosity that goes back before this thread was started, animosity I don't understand exactly.
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
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Hoff Man Loyal user Ohio 258 Posts
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I would like to thank Salsa for his very gracious
and relatively brief acceptance speech. And Uri, if you’re still up watching this … get to bed!! (cue the band) Steve |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts
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Hi Keith,
Geller in my opinion created the effect and performance of what we recognize as modern metal bending. My initial post really has little to do with the current public consciousness of the guy. Instead it is directed at performers such as you and I and the many others that create this rather strange form of entertainment. People may not know Geller at this point in time but they do know of his effect (for lack of better descriptive) that he made popular. I would venture to say he is the most copied and ripped off entertainer in our field. It‘s good to see that this conversation is taking place as it is. When I first joined this forum it would have been deleted because of people not being able to discuss and consider each others points of view. That’s a positive thing in my opinion. I think there is much to learn from Uri as per my article on his site. Both good and bad and I have as stated as much in the article. In fact I was a bit surprised it was placed on his site. I hope this answers your question. Best Wishes, Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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howdoidisconnect Elite user Just outside the cafe window 429 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 15:52, StuartPalm wrote: I have quote this already: http://www.uri-geller.com/content/research/history.htm It is credited ( in the third person ,not geller himself) as.... "The phenomenon has been described previously by Japanese Buddhists and in England in reports of witchcraft." By his own website he is not the originator of metal bending, although I will concede he made it popular, but that wasn't in question. My only problem for using his site as a basis for proof he didn't invent, hence it is not his intellectual property, is that his site is FULL of inaccuracies and misleading statement to promte his own views, but if supporter of Uri (such as Jim) wanted to ascertain that metal bending was gellers invent, then Geller himself claims otherwise. sorry to repeat myself, however I found throwing verbal hand grenades that has already been used causes less carnage than the first time around. edit: Jim comment of Geller in my opinion created the effect and performance of what we recognize as modern metal bending. Created the effect.....no even by geller's own words Performance....yes... but that doesn't mean the ones you accused owe him anything, on legal or ethical or even moral grounds. edit:edit: I bet $20 this thread will go onto at least page 22
I do look forward to the day when you post something constructive.
-Tony Iacoviello |
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 12:59, HollyMental wrote: I think you would actually be suprised to know who contacts the guy and exactly who does know about him. I will leave it at that. |
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Carlos the Great Inner circle California 1234 Posts
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On 2007-07-02 16:37, Jim-Callahan wrote: Fair enough. However, I don't thank Jules Verne for the moon landing. Nor do I thank the Xiongnu people for the Great Wall of China. Simple associations with a theme do not mean anything. What Geller did/does/continues to do is not what I do nor is anything I do based on him. Is it based on somebody who perhaps did base it on him? Maybe, I really wouldn't presume to know. I do know this however: Just because authors have written numerous books and stories about space travel does not make them important to the actual travel to the moon. To thank Jules Verne for the manned landing on the moon is an insult to all the people who spent years and their lives working to make it a reality. The same goes for Geller, in my opinion. To thank somebody who taught nothing and has been shown to, at times at least, lie about his abilities (which are our focus right now) is a similar sort of insult. You have your opinion and I disagree. In fact, I don't even agree with the premise. But that is also just an opinion. Quote:
On 2007-07-02 16:37, Jim-Callahan wrote: Again, you state your post has little to do with the public consciousness but, in reality, that is all you are talking about. If Geller was never in the public consciousness, then we wouldn't be having this conversation. He was/is and since we are talking about something you think we should thank him for bringing into the public consciousness, then it is a valid point. One that, really, is even more important when looked at it from performers. Again, we seem to be looking at this from completely different viewpoints. Quote:
On 2007-07-02 16:37, Jim-Callahan wrote: I completely agree. My feeling is that the ability to disagree and discuss issues is a demonstration of intelligence. Those that can't handle disagreements, by the reasoning I guess, are, what, less intelligent? I guess so, they are also those that enjoy a life of censoring the ideas of others but that is another discussion for another board. Quote:
On 2007-07-02 16:37, Jim-Callahan wrote: I made my feelings clear, I think, in my other post in this thread. "bad" things can and SHOULD completely negate any possible good somebody may do. Ends do not justify the means. Thanks is defined as "an acknowledgment of appreciation". I appreciate nothing Geller has done. This could possibly change, I suppose, but I don't see it happening esp. if the story about him saying he would locate a rapist is true. Again, I respect your opinion but my opinion is that your thanks are misplaced, unneeded, sends the wrong message, and your public posting here is personally distasteful. Oh, and before anybody says anything, I actually am one of the "faithful" or whatever those who enjoy Jim's work are called. We just happen to have different viewpoints on this topic. So Holly, your Quote:
"He has a clique of people who hang onto his every word and adoringly shower him with his desired - and apparently required - ego boosts but on the world stage, Jim is an obscure figure." has been shown to have absolutely no validity, so please stop. It is an insult to me since I am a self-admittedly in the "clique" and yet, lo and behold, I do not fit your mold. For somebody who seems intent on trying to take a "rational" point of view, you seem to make lots of irrational leaps in logic and uses of stereotypes. An apology would be nice at this point, by the way, or maybe just an admission of how you were/are incorrect. -Carlos
Cognite tute
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chichi711 Inner circle 5810 Posts
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Might I just add. Welcome back Carlos. Your posts and insight have been missed.
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Posted: Jul 2, 2007 03:35 pm 
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