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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Anabelle Space and Time Experiment #1 (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dr Spektor
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Hi Annabelle,

In getting reeady for possible TV-dom - here is a suggestion - you should run these experiments on SKYPE or equiv. with Videocam - then we could actually let you try acting with audio and video - and you can get feedback.

Dr S
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
LLL
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3 heads/...
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
Marqus
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Even though the 'fun's over', I tossed the 3 quarters anyway.

2 heads, 1 tail BUT...when I turned over the quarter that came up tails, the image of George Washington had changed to Rod Serling.

I guess that one was tossed into a dimension of sight & sound.

Annabelle, seriously, I liked the premise you created with your wording.

Now we eagerly await your card influencing effect.

Marqus
erlandish
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Quote:
On 2007-07-09 07:36, Anabelle wrote:
Space and Time Experiment #2 cancelled.

Anabelle


Really? I'm sure some of us would be interested in seeing more. Ortiz talks about this sort of technique in Strong Magic -- if nothing else, if distorting the claim slightly is off limits, somebody needs to go tell off Paul Potassy for his razor blade eating routine.
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entity
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Quote:
On 2007-07-09 06:52, arnon wrote:
P.S. Xiqual, have I disappointed you by trying to awaken some of us from the slumber of ignorance, rather than sleeping myself?


Arnon: Don't be such a patronizing oaf. I'm sure all of us were aware of the true odds of this experiment, but it was just presented as light-hearted fun, not as reality.

Do you go around to the performances of Magicians and Mentalists and stand up in the audience to explain the methodologies being used?

I often agree with your positions taken regarding fraudulent psychics, etc., but in this case you're off base and your post comes of as boorish, patronizing and petty.

Lighten up.

- entity
Ringo
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I think everyone here knows-or could figure out-what the method of such an effect is. I thought that the "faux explanation" of the odds by Annabelle WERE the "magic words." I enjoyed that, actually.

Anyhow, I liked the experiment AND the explanation by Arnon.

Curiously, it also shows that it's real easy to influnece emotions through time and space, and that among people who will never meet in real life.
Seems like black magic to me. Should I be afraid now?
sibbie
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I am interested in seeing what the second one was. Kind of interesting watching this thread.
chichi711
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Quote:
On 2007-07-09 09:36, entity wrote:
Quote:
On 2007-07-09 06:52, arnon wrote:
P.S. Xiqual, have I disappointed you by trying to awaken some of us from the slumber of ignorance, rather than sleeping myself?


Arnon: Don't be such a patronizing oaf. I'm sure all of us were aware of the true odds of this experiment, but it was just presented as light-hearted fun, not as reality.

Do you go around to the performances of Magicians and Mentalists and stand up in the audience to explain the methodologies being used?

I often agree with your positions taken regarding fraudulent psychics, etc., but in this case you're off base and your post comes of as boorish, patronizing and petty.

Lighten up.

- entity


I was going to say something, but I think Entity really summed that whole thing up.
erlandish
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Incidentally, a slight change in the wording could turn this into a bit more of a fooler. People might need to have their mathematician hats on in order to figure it out...

If you've got three coins, they can only land four different ways. Three heads, two heads + one tails, one heads + two tails, and three tails. If you were to take two of those ways, and I was to take the other two ways, and we played a game where you got points for throwing the coins your own way, then with those four ways split evenly between us we might be here all day before there's a clear winner.

But I think with a slight bit of hypnotic suggestion, I could influence the outcome in my favour. How about this - you get to do all the throwing to make sure that there's no funny business.

If you get either of the three of a kind, you win. If it's one of the other two ways, I win. We can even fix it so that if I win, I get only one point, but if you win, you get two points.

How does that sound? But here is where the subtle hypnotic suggestion comes in. Before you throw, I'd like you to recite the following words... etc. etc.
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fishwasher
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Anabelle,

Don't let arnon spoil the fun, I'd like to see your second experiment Smile

Aidan
Sayn lay narn, marli?

http://www.bizarremagic.net
Jim-Callahan
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You know I am truly surprised that a guy as intelligent as Arnon would behave in such a manner. But he has provided a fine example of the problem with some magicians, new mentaists and skeptics.

Ted Anneman wrote about it in the Jinx as did the guys in the Phoenix.
This has been a question that has puzzled and vexed for a long time.

But why does it happen?

Help us Arnon to understand why.

You are a clever guy and should be able to explain yourself so that we might find a way to fix this problem that has been a bother for so long.

Best Wishes,

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Arnon: you were patronizing.
Jim: you were patronizing.

Anabelle: the method was transparent, but the general idea is good. Where were you hoping to go with this?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Jim-Callahan
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John,

Truthfully I did not intend to be and would like to know why guys do that sort of thing.

I have my own ideas but would really like to hear from those who do these things.

Jim
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
tnscot
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Quote:
On 2007-07-09 06:52, arnon wrote:
Interestingly, mathematics predicts that 75% of all outcomes should be combos.

So far, here's what has been reported in this thread:

Combos:

Sibbie
Tony Iacoviello
thomas hastings
rick727
Tom Cutts
chichi711
piefke666
fishwasher

All heads or tails:

Entity
Patrick Redford
Andini

So 8 out of 11 outcomes have been combos, and 8/11 = 72.7%

The mathematical expectation, as I've shown, is 75%

So even on this short run, the results are as expected mathematically.

Put another way, the difference from the expected mathematical outcome is less than 2.3% !

Sorry, but no magic here.

P.S. Xiqual, have I disappointed you by trying to awaken some of us from the slumber of ignorance, rather than sleeping myself?


Dude....What was that about? It's not like somebody was claiming that they had diverted WWIII or was claiming they can cure cancer. It was a magic trick using mentalism.

I guess all magicians need to preface their tricks by saying, "Now, I'm not really going to make this dollar bill appear in a lemon...it's only a magic trick. It's really done by means of XXX. Now, watch and be entertained."

That was a hugely uncool thing to do, and it was exposure of a fellow forum user's trick. If it was in a "magic" area the mods would be all over you.
As Always,
Scot Legdermain
Matt Pulsar
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Two tails one head.

Arnon,
Do you ever perform at all?
Because you were just 'that guy,' and we all know and dislike 'that guy.'

I got the coins, I read the words, I threw the coins, I smiled. I read the other outcomes and then I go to your post, I rolled my eyes, then I laughed at how in depth you got, then I was a little angry that you went to the trouble to ruin some fun.

I look forward to the card experiment Anabelle

Erlandish-I like your ideas on the presentation.
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Anabelle
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Quote:
On 2007-07-09 12:25, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Arnon: you were patronizing.
Jim: you were patronizing.

Anabelle: the method was transparent, but the general idea is good. Where were you hoping to go with this?

John



Jim in my opinion was not patronizing in his post. The method might've been transparent to you, but some people would've enjoyed the process had it not been immediately exposed.

I was hoping to introduce a fun experiment, that's all. I have never "performed" on a forum and thought this might be a fun thing to do. (I was wrong, it upset me.

In no way did I think the routine would be exposed by someone who thought I was trying to make people believe I was the "real" thing. I never expected that reaction in a "magic" forum after posting that this was "all in fun" on the bottom part of my original post.

If I was posting on the "PSYCHIC Café" forum, I might expect that reaction, but not here. This was my presentation specifically for the forum and naturally not my method.

Anabelle
Arnon
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Sorry, folks, but I thought that stating those odds was blatantly erroneous, and thought it was an innocent error on Anabelle's part. Apparently, it was an intentional miscall, and I misunderstood and underestimated what she was doing. I WAS MISTAKEN.

I earnestly took the time to explain it to those that I thought might not have the math background I do - I am a former college math professor, and I have seen many students who have had "mental blocks" to mathematics.

I guess I missed the "fact" that Anabelle's post was meant to be "a performance," and therefore I DO APOLOGIZE to Anabelle and all of you for discussing it as if it was merely "a topic to be discussed intellectually" on the Café, which is how I mistook it to be.

I have seen Omid go through a similar explanation on the Café, when it was needed. This time, apparently, it wasn't.

I never meant to be "patronizing," an "oaf," "boorish," and "petty."

erlandish's suggestion to make the premise more subtle was very clever and, to my mind, made it plausible to perform for intelligent audiences. Tae dan hee kamsa hamnida.

Jim/Jack, I hope you provide me with the reference(s) to the Jinx and the Phoenix that you mentioned.

Again, sorry -
Arnon
Anabelle
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My wording was deliberate to get people to think elsewhere (mental misdirection?), also in the use of quarters when any coin could've been used.

At first it seems to make sense and most people just go with it. Naturally once they start to REALLY think about it, the mathematically inclined would've figured it out (if not right away). It's not earth shattering stuff, I was just trying to introduce some fun for those who DIDN'T know and would've been initially surprised by the results. Arnon, apology accepted.

Anabelle
Dr Spektor
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3 Heads are better than 1

http://www.monsterlandtoys.com/godzilla/......(RI).jpg

(Annabelle - how about doing a show kind of like Spaceghost Coast to Coast??? Imagine the fun of having Zorak and Brak with you)!
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
Magnus Eisengrim
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Perhaps I should tread carefully, as feelings are already hurt in this thread.

I like the idea of having some fun "experiments" in the thread, but it is difficult to anticipate how people we do not know will react to them. In one way, posting here is rather like busking--your audience is whoever happens to stop by.

Perhaps I am wrong, but statistical ploys such as this are very vulnerable to utterly failing to get audience "buy-in." As I read the "there are 3 outcomes" gambit, my interest was lost. It is rather like seeing a beginning card magician moving the deck behind his back.

I promise not to be sensitive to anyone disagreeing with me. It could be that the "3 outcomes" claim is acceptable to more people than I expect.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
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